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#101
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Hall of Stats says Reese 120 (100 is HOF worthy), Rizzuto 77.
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#102
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CC is pitching in a hitters ballpark, against a DH, in one of the most hitter friendly ballparks in baseball. At the same time, he has earned a roster spot playing on one of the most competitive teams in one of the most demanding markets in baseball. He is not compiling numbers. He is a productive and important part of the team. He has a career war which places him in company with many other HOF pitchers. ERA does not tell the whole story. He is almost 100 wins over .500 with an ERA+ of 117. Combined with a CY and a WS he will probably be a first ballot guy.
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#103
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never mind, Kenny Cole said the same thing.
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#104
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Last edited by packs; 06-21-2019 at 08:49 AM. |
#105
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Now Packs, about Corey Dickerson...
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#106
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Haha I've always thought Hudson has been criminally overlooked and he's been one of my favorite players since he came into the league. I loved watching him pitch.
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#107
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#108
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Tim Hudson was a great ball player. He did rack up a lot of numbers in a pitching friendly park but was a “compiler” (just kidding) toward the latter part of his career.
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#109
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Haha it was his last three seasons that killed his HOF case. If not for them he he would have been (correct me if I'm wrong) the only pitcher other than Babe Ruth to pitch at least 10 seasons and never have a losing record. Except for two of those three last seasons!
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#110
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Turner field was pretty neutral with it's ballpark factor bouncing around from year to year on either side of "1" which is in essence, no affect.
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Check out https://www.thecollectorconnection.com Always looking for consignments 717.327.8915 We sell your less expensive pre-war cards individually instead of in bulk lots to make YOU the most money possible! and Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecollectorconnectionauctions Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 06-21-2019 at 09:19 AM. |
#111
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For me he's a yes, but (a) just barely and (b) there are at least 25 better players (including those still active) who aren't in yet. I'd put Sabathia just a little behind Tiant and just a little ahead of Guidry.
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#112
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Eventually CC gets it... His career isn't quite over yet. If the Yankees do something (win the Series) this year he might get some extra-credit there to go with 250+ wins.
He's not a dominator like Halladay was... Kershaw would get in if he had to retire now because of his health. He's likely to be one of the last 250+ winners we see for a while (Verlander probably?) ... nice career, consistent.... Not a pure compiler (Jamie Moyer or Quinn from way back in the 1900-30s) but not as big a winner as Mussina or Hunter. No negatives for PEDs that I'm aware of like Pettite. Pretty much a model citizen if I remember right so no "character issues" (Schilling). I do think Luis Tiant was better .... but different eras. I hope he gets in. Same with Tommy John who is also a bit of a "compiler" but with a great comeback story. Anyway, the recent inductions of Smith and Baines suggest that the Hall doors will are wide open even if the writers don't let CC in within the initial run... I think that the writers will but not until they make him wait for a while. |
#113
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HOF means little anymore...unless you have their RC in a 10. (Did not mention PSA). Then, you are in like Flint. Yeah, he deserves. Besides, his cards are produced in the great bulge production numbers. Never will hold a good return. CC is not a HOFer in my thoughts. My baseball side. Not my card side. |
#114
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#115
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Not really. He pitched a lot in the postseason and did OK not "really well". 3.81 ERA with a 1.305 WHIP. Nothing special.
Last edited by Tabe; 06-21-2019 at 05:56 PM. |
#116
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CCs best season were 19-7, 3.21 and 21-7, 3.18. He also had two more 19 win seasons. Also, CC had a war of 7.2 in 2008 which was split with Cleveland and Milwaukee. CC is retiring at the end of this season. I would guess he and Ichiro will go in together - because at this time they are the only 2 players retiring who are worth voting for. There is always the possibility he will have to wait another year but I doubt it. |
#117
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Hof
Simple answer. MLB Baseball has turned a starting pitcher into a 6 inning pitcher. The less a pitcher “hangs around”, the less likely his chances are to claim a victory.
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#118
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Hof
3.71 lifetime ERA; a horrific 1.26 WHIP and here’s the worst stat of all: only ONE season with a sub-3.00 ERA (and that was a 2.70 Figure). This means even at his ultimate “peak”, he was not putting up earth-shattering numbers. After the 2.70 ERA, I believe his best figure was 3.17. Total “compiler”. He has only averaged 13 wins per season AND he pitched for great Indian and Yankee teams who both provided plenty of run support. Hall of Famer? Not in my book, but as others have accurately stated in this post, he will eventually get it.
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#119
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Well you do have to look at that ERA in context. His ERA+ is 117, so he was 17% better than the league average pitcher. In an era where scoring is up so much the raw number can be misleading.
I certainly find him better than Jack Morris who "only" won 254 games and had a 3.90 ERA with an ERA+ of 105. I'd also take him over Burleigh Grimes whose ERA was 3.53 but his ERA+ was only 108. Oh and he beats the pants off of them in WHIP too. I guess my big issue is there are a SLEW of pitchers I'd put in before him, but I'd have put them in before Morris too. Luis Tiant, Tommy John, even Jim Kaat. However you can unscrew a light bulb, but not a HOF, unless you're in favor of throwing guys out.
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#120
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I always thought Rick Reuschel was quite a bit better than jack Morris and maybe some others in the Hall.
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My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ He is available to do custom drawings in graphite, charcoal and other media. He also sells some of his works as note cards/greeting cards on Etsy under JamesSpaethArt. |
#121
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good call Resuchel is also on my list, just forgot about him. He's probably higher than John and Kaat, neck and neck with Tiant for me.
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#122
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At least in the case of Morris, he had some dominant postseason outings, including the iconic 1991 game 7. CC? Career 4.31 ERA in the postseason while averaging under 6 innings a start. CC had some good, even very good, years. Anything great? Nah. Sure, it's important to look at the context of when he played. Good idea. So compare him to his contemporaries - Roy Halladay. Justin Verlander. Clayton Kershaw. Zack Greinke. Madison Bumgarner. Curt Schilling. Randy Johnson. Roger Clemens. Greg Maddux. Corey Kluber. Max Scherzer. And so on. All pitched in the same eras as CC. All put up seasons (or many, many seasons) better than CC's best. I just don't see him at HOF level. |
#123
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The stats you're bringing up for CC are compiler stats. Without hanging around as a below average pitcher since 2013 and putting up one decent season in 2017, CC doesn't sniff 250 wins or 3000 K's. |
#124
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CC's poste season ERA was 4.31 and he won 10 games. Petite won most post season games of all time. Cant blame him for being in so many post season games. But again, thats my point he was in so many games and when we count stats for HOF like total wins they dont count postseason which they should for guys like Petite who were in so many games.. Last edited by 1952boyntoncollector; 06-24-2019 at 08:47 AM. |
#125
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