T206 Wagner PSA 5 in Mastro Auction - Your Thoughts?

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Posted By: pas

When guys collect in a very public manner it does not seem inappropriate to me to discuss them on a message board.

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Posted By: JimB

Not everybody mentioned collects in a public manner.
JimB

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Posted By: barrysloate

What if any of the above named collectors googled their name, was directed to this board, and found out their collecting habits were being discussed without their knowledge? Do you feel certain they would be okay with that?

You can argue that in this information age anything is fair game, but I believe in respecting people's privacy.

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Posted By: Darren

I agree with Barry and will take it a step further. I don't think it is "right" to research what other individuals are buying on Ebay either. Sure it may be legal, but it just ain't right.

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Posted By: Peter Thomas

Are there two pin holes or dimples in upper right (top & side)? Also card seems to have a crease on chin coming out of the shirt edge. Looks like a nice vg to me.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

It looks over sized to me I am surprised it has not been trimmed down and put in a 7 holder.

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Posted By: Marty Ogelvie

IMO

As long as were not giving out SSNs and such, I don't see the problem with mentioning a collectors name... even if it is to say 'so and so' collects this or that..  small potato's.

martyOgelvie
New York Yankee cards

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

Horrors! I am speculating who may buy the Wagner. Such personal information!!!!!!

Its not like I am speculating who they are sleeping with.

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Posted By: pas

Was it wrong to discuss Lionel Carter's collection?

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jim- it really doesn't matter how you or I feel. If they are fine with it so am I. But maybe they would not approve, or just feel uncomfortable having their name posted.

Even you admit that you don't give ebay feedback, or ask for it, because you don't want people to know your business. What if you won something from me on ebay and I put up a post the next day that I sold a PSA 4 so-and-so (okay, a PSA 8) to Jim Crandell. Wouldn't you object to that?

None of this is earth shattering, just common courtesy.

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Posted By: Jim VB

<<It looks over sized to me I am surprised it has not been trimmed down and put in a 7 holder.>>

Bobby,

It is oversized. The Mastro ad on the back of Old Cardboard actually lists this item as (and I quote) " 1909 T206 Honus Wagner: The Magnificent "Jumbo" Example!"

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

As to PAS' question... It seemed pretty good for Mastro.

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Posted By: Bobby Binder

Mastro made a nice statement there..

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Barry,

I wouldn't care.

The main reason I don't want feedback is the seller bugs me for feedback--I know I said what you indicated but I don't think I really care of the world knows that I am buying. Of my 400 sets on the registry I don't think I have any hidden so there are no real surprises. Also periodically I put up my top 35 sets or so where I need 5 or fewer cards to finish in PSA 8 or better so the world knows what are my biggest priorities.

But please please do not publicize it if I buy a PSA 4--I will be laughed out of town and kicked out of the HOF.

Jim

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Posted By: Dave F

Jim

Interesting you don't care. What were your last three ebay card purchases?


Dave

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Posted By: barrysloate

If I find out you bought a PSA 4 I'm going to tell everyone I know!

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Posted By: JimCrandell

Dave,

1944 American Beauties-Miss-Placed Confidence PSA 9
1944 American Beauties-Foil Proof--PSA 9
1956 Topps Presidents Herbert Hoover--PSA 8.

Jim

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Posted By: JimB

"But please please do not publicize it if I buy a PSA 4--I will be laughed out of town and kicked out of the HOF."

If you buy a PSA 5 MC Wagner, you won't be laughed out of town.
JimB

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Posted By: JimCrandell

That would go down as a 3 in the set registry and lower my average grade significantly--no thanks.

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Posted By: John

Since you’re keen on dropping their names Jim…

The Dreier’s have an amazing PSA 4 Wagner from the SCP sale…anyone kick them out of any HOF’s, have you called to laugh them out of town Jim?

By the way since were saying no thanks to things that are out of our leagues anyways Jim, I have decided that Salma Hayek is not worth taking to bed…no thanks.

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Posted By: JimB

It may count as a 3 on the registry, but it would immediately bump up the significance of any collection. It is among the top five or six Wagners in the hobby. And to my knowledge, none of its competitors are moving any time soon.
JimB

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Posted By: JimCrandell

JimB,

Of course you are right--to be honest though I can't afford it unless I sell a chunk of what I have which I am not willing to do.

JimC

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Posted By: T206Collector

...were worth a low grade Wagner, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat. I would be really sad to see my one-of-a-kind dual-signed T201 Doyle/Leifield go, but to own a Wagner would be worth it. I think anytime you can trade up -- multi cards for one jewel -- it is worth seriously considering.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

Visit http://www.t206collector.com for signed deadball card galleries, articles and more!

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

The problem is you have to sell ALOT of cards to pay for even a low grade Wagner -- which appears to be worth between 2-300K. If you need that money from the sales to pay for the Wagner, it may take a while to free it up sale by sale by sale.

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Posted By: barrysloate

Jeff- I think the days of the 200K Wagner are behind us, seeing that a BVG 1 just surpassed 300K.

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

Assuming hypothetically I could have a broad based collection or one Wagner, I would MUCH rather have the broad based collection. Be it the holy grail or not, I just can't see foregoing the enjoyment of having a wide ranging collection for owning one single card.

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Posted By: Jim VB

Jeff,

Barry is right. However, we'll be able to tell our kids that we remember when you could pick up a PSA 1 for under $100,000 and a PSA 8 for a little over $460,000.

Aaaah! Those were the good old days!

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Posted By: Peter_Spaeth

what is the best estimate of the number of authentic wagners out there and of those, how many are slabbed?

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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman

I agree with Peter. Unless you're just buying the Wagner for investment purposes, if you have a choice of owning a Wagner or a wide range of great cards worth the same amount, I'd take the multiple cards anyday.

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Someone (about 20 years ago) who auctioned (at a major auction house) his low-grade Wagner (undoubtedly a 1) for about $17K, the winning bidder tried to renege, the seller hired an attorney who threatened legal redress, and the buyer (RELUCTANTLY I suppose) then honored his obligation.

Then flashback about to around the mid '70's. I call tell you of someone I know who was offered a Wagner for $1,500 (probably by today's standards about a 2) who declined to consummate the sale!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Corey- that was my Wagner, in 1987. The card hammered for 18K and I don't think there was a BP. The day after the auction the winner called Phillips and told them he wasn't going to pay for the card. We sued him and he agreed to take it. It currently resides somewhere in a PSA 1 holder.

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Posted By: peter ullman

Barry...if you don't mind me asking...was it a consignment...or yours? If yours....when and where did you get it?

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Posted By: barrysloate

I bought it in 1986 for $8250. About a year or so later I decided to sell it, and consigned it to Phillips auction house. It was part of my collection but at the time it was simply too much money for me to have tied up. Its value doubled in the year I had it. Seemed great at the time...who would have ever guessed.

Edited to add I bought it privately from a collector who had two for sale at the time. The second was bought by a board member and that is the raw Excellent I cited previously in this thread.

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Posted By: peter ullman

barry...thanks for sharing...great story...who'd a thunk it!

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Posted By: barrysloate

Peter- before I consigned the card I ran an ad in SCD. Maybe it was an eighth of a page. I offered it for sale outright, without a picture and with just a brief description, for $8500.

Of course there were no takers.

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Posted By: peter ullman

wow...what a difference an auction house makes!

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Posted By: CoreyRS.hanus

Barry. That was you?! Thanks for reminding me! Didn't that person also have a third Wagner, that diecut one?

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Posted By: Jeff S.

My only Wagner witnessed in person (besides the one in the Hall) was offered at a small CT auction house in the early 1990's. Part of a candy box find from an original owner - fresh to the market. I was in my early teens, and trying to pick up a few T206's for my collection (not Wags obviously). Bidding began at $5k and ended somewhere around $35k. I would say from memory it would have garnered a Poor grade - not a bad little investment regardless. I believe SGC's owner was one of the bidders, although not the winner. We spoke about that auction last year when I was at SGC.

Great story Barry.

I also remember a Canadian collector in the 80's trading a family car for a Wag - I think it was in an article in one of those Parade newspaper supplements.

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Posted By: Andrew S.

<The Dreier’s have an amazing PSA 4 Wagner from the SCP sale>

I didn't realize George had a T206 Wagner. Wouldn't a PSA-4 go higher than a miscut PSA-5?

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Posted By: Jeff S.

If you look at JimB's provided scan of the Wagner PSA 5, you'll notice that the diamond cut reveals the top right border of the card printed below this one - more than likely a Wagner itself. Does that increase the price .01%?

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Posted By: John

"I didn't realize George had a T206 Wagner. Wouldn't a PSA-4 go higher than a miscut PSA-5?"

No George Dreyer has a tractor trailer full of Wagner’s in one inch screw downs at a bank, he will post an image of about (12) mixed oddball 1930’s and 1950’s cards on his bed sheets later for proof of the Wagner’s he owns.

Mr. Chad and Doug Dreier have a superb specimen and I would be surprised if they would want to trade for the current MC card, no matter who above wants to speculate on their buying patterns.

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Posted By: Mike

Does anyone know what happened to a new T206 Wagner discovered in Canada about 3 or 4 years ago?

A gentleman in Hamilton, Ontario started a new card grading service that would have been the equivalent of Pro Grading and someone submitted a Wagner with a significant piece missing from one of the corners.

The owner of the grading firm had a feature done in a local newspaper regarding the find and the article went on to state that the grader brokered the sale of the card to someone in Pennsylvania (?) for $15,000.00

I am curious if anyone on the board knows where this card ended up.

Thanks, Mike

PS: The story of the dealer (again from Hamilton) who traded his car for a Wagner is true as I know him.

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

I hope this is the appropriate place to post this but below is page 1 of 2 of Beckett Elite's "21 Faces of Wagner." I've been trying to figure out where the 2 beautiful Wagner's in the second row are from. Surely one of the two (the one on the left is my guess) is the Gretzky Wagner. What about the one on the right? Is it graded? Is so, what grade? (I also don't want to speculate as to whether it's short top to bottom).



Edited to add page 2 of 2:

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Posted By: barrysloate

The Wagner in the upper right, with the corner missing, is the one I sold in 1987. You can't miss it.

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Posted By: Steve Dawson

What about the second Wagner from the right on the bottom row?

It's diamond cut, but on a true diamond cut, the bottom would angle in the opposite direction.


Come to think of it, several of those Wagner's have seemingly "abnormal" cuts.


Steve

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Posted By: Jantz

Is it just me or are two of the Wagners on page 2 the same one? Look at the example in the top row, far left corner. Now look at the example in the second row, third from the left, same page. Look identical to me. Notice the paper loss in the upper left corner & the dot in the lower left border.

Anyone else see this?

Jantz

Here they are side-by-side.

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Posted By: MVSNYC

the first thing i noticed, is that the gretzky card is also pictured twice...there is a card in between the two

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Posted By: Jantz

Yeah, those two examples had me wondering also.

Jantz

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Posted By: Jeff S.

I'd assume these were all shot over many years with different cameras for various purposes, explaining the variables in color/quality. That said, those two Wags mentioned above appear to be duplicated. Mastro had a collection of 11? assembled at the National I believe - are these are accounted for on those two pages?

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Posted By: Jon Canfield

Michael - you answered my original question then. So the Gretzky Wagner is pictured twice? I couldn't figure out how there were two Wagners that were so sharp!