Does PSA give favoritism to certain dealers/customers?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

Nobody puts a "minimum grade 10" on their card, unless they know they're going to get 10s.

There are many examples where there are a very limited number of 10's have ever been graded of a certain card over decades, and it turns out the majority of them were all graded at the same time, in the same submission, for the same submitter.

That's not happenstance, that's fraud.

No argument from me about the overall thesis, for sure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

Fair enough!

Now I just need to get the 4SC guys to sign up for this study.

Better yet, get them to submit your cards for you.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

Nobody puts a "minimum grade 10" on their card, unless they know they're going to get 10s.

There are many examples where there are a very limited number of 10's have ever been graded of a certain card over decades, and it turns out the majority of them were all graded at the same time, in the same submission, for the same submitter.

That's not happenstance, that's fraud.

You can have any opinion you want but at the top of every page it clearly states. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Better yet, get them to submit your cards for you.

I honestly don't submit much. Most of what I do submit ends up being graded 1 or A. I'm guessing the outcome won't be all that different if they submit for me.

Here's a good example from my most recent submission. Pretty confident that this one will get the A.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It was just a joke.
But I don't think anyone should be surprised, the world works on the Animal Farm principle. Suppose I try to get an appointment with a famous orthopedic surgeon and am told he has a six month wait. Do you think if Jayson Tatum called they would tell him the same thing?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

It was just a joke.
But I don't think anyone should be surprised, the world works on the Animal Farm principle. Suppose I try to get an appointment with a famous orthopedic surgeon and am told he has a six month wait. Do you think if Jayson Tatum called they would tell him the same thing?

I do think there are some major submitters who bundle up submissions to submit on behalf of others. Not sure if 4SC offers this service, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

I do think there are some major submitters who bundle up submissions to submit on behalf of others. Not sure if 4SC offers this service, but it wouldn't surprise me if they did.

I don't know, but I would guess they have so many of their own cards and such a robust business they don't need to mess with all the hassle being an aggregator entails.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't know, but I would guess they have so many of their own cards and such a robust business they don't need to mess with all the hassle being an aggregator entails.

If not them, then maybe another major submitter that does mess with it? Seems like a solid strategy for trying to get better grades.

[raulus]

Originally Posted by bnorth

You can have any opinion you want but at the top of every page it clearly states. If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.

You suggesting that Ima isn’t the poster’s real given name?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Fair enough, and here's my final thoughts about all this: on your first point, what you've left out is where the submitter's person at the TPG tells the original grader, or a different grader, what grades the submitter would be happy with for what cards, or even to bump them all up a notch or two, or even that the submitter wasn't happy, leaving it to the imagination of the grader as to how far to go to please said submitter. I just can't see that happening, for all the reasons I have laid out before. As to your experiences listening to the complaints of those convinced they don't get the love for their submissions as the AHs, whales, etc., I have no rebuttal that other than the same vague feeling I get when I take my 2007 Highlander into the dealership for service that I might not be getting quite the same level of care and attention as the guy with his brand new Sequoia. No proof, mind you, just a feeling, and don't get me wrong, I love both my Highlander and my dealer.

Well I know for a fact that my car dealership gives much better service to their entertainer clientele than I get because I have gotten friendly with a few of the employees since I keep leasing cars from them and they like to share stories with me about how high maintenance these clients are. I think it goes without saying that bigger clients get much better service. In the grading world it is clear service does not just mean cheaper grading fees and faster turnaround time.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by raulus

You suggesting that Ima isn’t the poster’s real given name?

A nom de guerre perhaps.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

A nom de guerre perhaps.

Ima crossed the anonymity line.

.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Buy 100 PSA 10s from 4SC. Resubmit them raw. See how many 10s you get. It won't be more than a handful. Read the Blowout threads about the staggering number of altered cards graded for certain substantial dealers. I have known, for better or worse, dealers willing to tell me things and there is no doubt at all that who submits, or asks for a review, matters. You can choose to believe what you want or demand any standard of proof, but this is how it works. PSA grew on the backs of dealers and auction houses, not individual collectors. There was every motive in the world to make those people happy.

I guess, except for the fact that all of this is fraud, pure and simple. Have you contacted the FBI and Operation Bullpen? I hope so, and I hope the perps go to jail to set an example arid rid the hobby of this kind of illegal behavior forever.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

I guess, except for the fact that all of this is fraud, pure and simple. Have you contacted the FBI and Operation Bullpen? I hope so, and I hope the perps go to jail to set an example arid rid the hobby of this kind of illegal behavior forever.

Don't know where you've been my friend, but there was a years long investigation by the FBI. It was discussed on this forum ad nauseum.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't know where you've been my friend, but there was a years long investigation by the FBI. It was discussed on this forum ad nauseum.

It seemed like decades long...

Hank my friend, are you going to be at the National this year?
.

[HOF_Forever]

Dumb question (perhaps): is 4SC referring to 4 Sharp Corners? If so, I thought they were just a consignor of cards that are already graded. Do they offer bulk grading too?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by HOF_Forever

Dumb question (perhaps): is 4SC referring to 4 Sharp Corners? If so, I thought they were just a consignor of cards that are already graded. Do they offer bulk grading too?

4SC is definitely 4 sharp corners. No different than any other dealer, I think they buy raw cards and get them graded, then sell them once graded. Pretty sure they also buy existing graded cards and then re-sell them.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by HOF_Forever

Dumb question (perhaps): is 4SC referring to 4 Sharp Corners? If so, I thought they were just a consignor of cards that are already graded. Do they offer bulk grading too?

Yes. They do take consignments for a while now but historically and for the most part sell their own and always have. Mega submitter for a long long time.

[HOF_Forever]

Thanks for the information. I only came across them recently as an Ebay consignor and was unaware of their history.

[Peter_Spaeth]

2.2 million items sold, according to ebay. Not to mention countless sales off their still active website.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Don't know where you've been my friend, but there was a years long investigation by the FBI. It was discussed on this forum ad nauseum.

LOL! Well someone earlier on this thread had no idea that the T206 Wagner 8 was trimmed. Not sure if that means two people here are not dialed in 24/7 to the hobby or if they are not paying attention.

[mannequin1]

The worst possible scenario would be someone who's real tight with at least 1 of the graders, who then gives there cards 8's, 9's or even a 10 knowing they're overgrading, for a cut of the profits.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Ima Pseudonym

...why WOULDN'T they want a 9?...

In the wild, wacky world of modern cards, a graded 9 often sells for less than a raw, pack fresh equivalent. That's counter-intuitive, in my opinion; however, it seems to be the current reality.