Greatness Among Us!

[CJinPA]

Babe Ruth and Shohei Ohtani: eerily similar numbers!!

Babe Ruth: 159 home runs in his first 674 career games with a won/loss record of 35-18 in his first 455 IP's

Shohei Ohtani: 160 home runs in his first 674 games with a win/loss record of 35-19 in his first 455 IP's

Baseball is different than it was in the 80's and lightyears different than in Ruth's era. Amazing we're able to see a modern-day Ruth in the game... stunning, really!

[53toppscollector]

its kind of wild that ohtani is already 29, feels like he just arrived in the league a year or two ago. him missing so much time his first few seasons is going to hurt his ultimate counting stats.

still, the best overall player of this generation

[robw1959]

I will always tell people to be careful when making modern player comparisons to Ruth. He was routinely batting against 450' centerfield fences. Even so, in 1921 Babe Ruth managed to hit a 500" homer in every American League ballpark he faced.

https://www.wackyexplorer.com/babe-ruth-longest-homer/

[Peter_Spaeth]

He has been in a bit of a power outage and has dropped to 3rd in hitting on Fangraphs. He is 27th currently in pitching.

[Casey2296]

I love his hunger to win, I can only hope he wears a Giants uniform next year.

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by Casey2296

I love his hunger to win, I can only hope he wears a Giants uniform next year.

And I'm hoping he becomes a Phillie!! Regardless, it wouldn't surprise me to see him as the first $50 million/year player. Amazing!

Ruth made a peak of $80k/yr in 1930. That's equal to just over $1.4 million... TV, internet, international marking and advertising rights have changed EVERYTHING in entertainment - it's crazy!

[CJinPA]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I will always tell people to be careful when making modern player comparisons to Ruth. He was routinely batting against 450' centerfield fences. Even so, in 1921 Babe Ruth managed to hit a 500" homer in every American League ballpark he faced.

https://www.wackyexplorer.com/babe-ruth-longest-homer/

That's amazing - the power that man could generate and with baseballs that weren't wound so tight, it's incredible.

On the flip side, Ruth wasn't facing 3-4 pitchers each night who were fresh and throwing pills at 95 - 102 mph. Think of how many starting pitchers in his era went 9 innings/game, and threw 300+ innings/yr... humans haven't devolved since that era so in pre-war and beyond, the time a lineup got to their 3rd AB in a game, in mid-season, a lot of arms were worn. Never taking away anything from the stars and greats of that era, but it was completely different.

Think of the prep between starts that pitchers go through in the modern era - and Ohtani is doing that and playing full time.... scout the pitching staff w/ film work on non-pitching days, hitting routine, then pitching recovery on start +1 days, start +2, start+ 3, etc.

Just impressive all around! Both players are absolute greats!

[raulus]

Originally Posted by CJinPA

On the flip side, Ruth wasn't facing 3-4 pitchers each night who were fresh and throwing pills at 95 - 102 mph. Think of how many starting pitchers in his era went 9 innings/game, and threw 300+ innings/yr... humans haven't devolved since that era so in pre-war and beyond, the time a lineup got to their 3rd AB in a game, in mid-season, a lot of arms were worn. Never taking away anything from the stars and greats of that era, but it was completely different!

Good points here.

A few more observations (not to take away from the Bambino, but just some real differences in the game from 100 years ago ):

Ruth only faced AL pitching. There was no interleague play (other than the WS). 8 teams in the AL? And he didn’t face his own team’s pitchers. So the number of pitchers he faced during the season was limited. I suspect he got to know most of them really well.

The league wasn’t integrated, so he was only competing against maybe half of the available talent.

Spray charts and spin rates and all the modern analytics didn’t exist, which seems to benefit pitchers today.

Of course, there are any number of factors that cut the other way as well, some of which have been outlined already.

I could go on, but obviously while we attempt to compare players from vastly different eras, it can be difficult to really feel confident in those comparisons, even when the counting stats are this similar.

[G1911]

Ohtani is a great player and I'm rooting for him, but 674 and 455 is such a meaningless cherrypick of a standard. People have been comparing current-hot-player to Babe Ruth for a century. It's never really been true. Just let Ohtani stand on his own pedestal of accomplishment instead of trying to place him as new Ruth.

[donmuth]

Originally Posted by CJinPA

On the flip side, Ruth wasn't facing 3-4 pitchers each night who were fresh and throwing pills at 95 - 102 mph. Think of how many starting pitchers in his era went 9 innings/game, and threw 300+ innings/yr... humans haven't devolved since that era so in pre-war and beyond, the time a lineup got to their 3rd AB in a game, in mid-season, a lot of arms were worn. Never taking away anything from the stars and greats of that era, but it was completely different.

This would be super interesting to research to find out how many of Ruth's HRs occurred during which plate appearance in a game, on average, and compare that to some modern sluggers. I can see a graph of it in my head. Not sure how to extract the data though. Anyone have some extra time on their hands?

[jingram058]

Yes, but don't forget, major league pitchers were just throwing wiffle-ball or slow pitch softball speed back in Ruth's day compared to the sheer multitude of Fellers, Koufaxes, and Ryan's today. Remember how I got torched with a flamethrower in an old thread attempting to contradict that idiotic BS?

[Tabe]

Originally Posted by donmuth

This would be super interesting to research to find out how many of Ruth's HRs occurred during which plate appearance in a game, on average, and compare that to some modern sluggers. I can see a graph of it in my head. Not sure how to extract the data though. Anyone have some extra time on their hands?

Surface level:

Ruth hit .365 from the 7th-9th innings with 202 homers. He hit .355 facing a starter the 3rd time and .357 the 4th time. He hit .350 overall against relievers.

Ohtani is a career .274 hitter. He's hitting .279 in the 7th-9th. .290 facing starters for the 3rd time. .267 against relievers.

[darwinbulldog]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I will always tell people to be careful when making modern player comparisons to Ruth. He was routinely batting against 450' centerfield fences. Even so, in 1921 Babe Ruth managed to hit a 500" homer in every American League ballpark he faced.

https://www.wackyexplorer.com/babe-ruth-longest-homer/

I suppose that's true.

[jethrod3]

Originally Posted by 53toppscollector

its kind of wild that ohtani is already 29, feels like he just arrived in the league a year or two ago. him missing so much time his first few seasons is going to hurt his ultimate counting stats.
still, the best overall player of this generation

It's still an "if" but if Ohtani stays healthy, he could play another 15 years and retire in his mid-forties. Ruth retired at age 40 I believe. Ohtani has a definite advantage in that players these days have access to better trainers and health care, and tend to take care of their bodies at least a bit better than those from Ruth's era. Even if he switches to DH full-time in a few years, I think he'll be able to make up for starting so late through by extending the back end of his career---this will take care of the stats even if he performs at just a "good" level his last few years.

[Bigdaddy]

Originally Posted by jethrod3

... Ohtani has a definite advantage in that players these days have access to better trainers and health care, and tend to take care of their bodies at least a bit better than those from Ruth's era.

Ruth had hot dogs, beer and women. What more could a man ask for??

[Fall1963]

What would a well trained (physically) Ruth look like and play like today?
Ruth outmanned everyone of his peers in his prime, sometimes out homering entire clubs.
Ruth .690 CAREE slugging %. (By far the greatest)
Ruth won 7 World Series Titles. (3 with the Red Sox, 4 with the Yankees). This has to play somehow in the discussion.

[packs]

I don't see why anyone would suggest Ruth wouldn't be Ruth in any era. He hit home runs, yeah, but he was also a career 342 hitter. That doesn't happen by accident. He would probably hit over 1,000 home runs if he were playing today in modern stadiums. There's nothing to suggest Ruth couldn't hit a fastball so I don't think an occasional 100 MPH is going to stymie a guy who hit 342 on average.

[BioCRN]

His injury is a terrible thing for baseball. Yes, the game will go on just fine without him, but he's a unique piece of in-career baseball history. What he is doing isn't generational, it's something we haven't seen on this level of mastery. He's got a Cy Young arm with a MVP bat and that can be easily said without exaggeration.

What he's doing is up there with Barry Bonds 2001-2004. When are we going to see a player on this level again?