National location in 2024 and future

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

One think a lot of people aren’t considering is air fare. Those who travel for business a lot realize that tickets to Chicago and New York are DC are usually way cheaper than smaller and midsized cities. See how many people show us to one of the smaller cities being proposed when the airfare is $2000.

Very good point air travel cost should be considered as a factor but I still believe there are enough good locations that could support a healthy rotation thru out the country.

[Jewish-collector]

Regarding the Washington, DC convention center, there are plenty of hotels within 2 blocks of the facility. The problem is there isn't much parking.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Regarding the Washington, DC convention center, there are plenty of hotels within 2 blocks of the facility. The problem is there isn't much parking.

That's a general issue in DC IME. Wonder what the story is in Philly?

[Bigdaddy]

I've been to large trade shows in Atlanta and Orlando recently and both of those cities have large convention centers and plenty of hotels and cheap flights. Next year it will be in Denver.

I agree with the above poster about segregating the floor space depending on the type of wares you are peddling. That could actually open up the choices since a single large, contiguous floor space would not be the only deciding factor.

Let's give the new management team a chance. I am hopeful they will bring some fresh ideas to the table.

[jiw98]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Don't fall for the national ruin porn they show for Detroit. Working downtown for 11 years and the crime in the financial/sports district is near nothing. Now if you want to jump off into the neighborhoods, well good luck. But I don't hitchhike in Compton either.

I've worked all over the Detroit area. The area by the stadiums and casinos is quite safe. The area by the Penobscot building downtown is also pretty good.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

Regarding the Washington, DC convention center, there are plenty of hotels within 2 blocks of the facility. The problem is there isn't much parking.

With the construction of City Center a lot of hotels have opened up in the area. Unfortunately most, if not all hotels, are valet parking only. The Hampton Inn on Mass. Ave charges $59/night and the Homewood Suites on New York Ave charges $49/night. The Marriott Marquis next door charges $60.18/night. The closest parking garage is at City Center on 9th and H Streets about 3 blocks south. During the week it is $19 all day or $14 early bird (in by 9 out by 6). Weekends is flat rate $10.

[Jewish-collector]

The Marriott Marquis is directly next to and connected to the convention center. There are two smaller hotels very close to the Marquis on the opposite side. I think that's 2 blocks from the main entrance of the convention center. The Renaissance Hotel (side entrance) is directly across the street from the Carnegie Library. The main entrance (valet parking drop off) of that Renaissance is directly across the street from a parking lot (which was the site of the old convention center pre 2003). The Grand Hyatt is behind that parking lot and it is directly diagonally from the Convention Center. I think that's about 2 blocks.

The convention center's largest space is two levels from street level to their main exhibit area and I believe (when all partitions are opened) that it is large enough to have the National there.

[Michael B]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

The Marriott Marquis is directly next to and connected to the convention center. There are two smaller hotels very close to the Marquis on the opposite side. I think that's 2 blocks from the main entrance of the convention center. The Renaissance Hotel (side entrance) is directly across the street from the Carnegie Library. The main entrance (valet parking drop off) of that Renaissance is directly across the street from a parking lot (which was the site of the old convention center pre 2003). The Grand Hyatt is behind that parking lot and it is directly diagonally from the Convention Center. I think that's about 2 blocks.

The convention center's largest space is two levels from street level to their main exhibit area and I believe (when all partitions are opened) that it is large enough to have the National there.

Grand Hyatt is on H between 10th and 11th. City Center is part of the former Convention site along with the building on NY Ave that has Tiffany's along with the parking lot.

You are right about the lower space in the Walter Washington Convention Center. Earlier post I mentioned it is about 4 football fields long and one half of the width is a little less than a football field and the other half is a little larger than one.

As someone mentioned earlier it is a heavily unionized building. You cannot cart your own items in, only carry them.

Of the other venues Chicago seems to be the easiest for dealers - drive your car into the building and use any cart you wish. The IX Center only allowed two wheel carts. I cannot speak about AC, but several dealers mentioned it is unionized and they dared not move anything.

[Leon]

I would be fine with it staying in Rosemont.
.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would be fine with it staying in Rosemont.
.

+1. It's got all the bases covered, settle in there so going to the National will come to be routine as to the particulars.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by x2drich2000

Even combined they're not large enough. VB is 180k sqft including the separate ballroom and Richmond is 178k sqft.

There are two major hotels directly adjacent to the Richmond Convention Center where any number of specific activities like autograph signings could take place.

Smaller venues are fine too if you’re bringing the show to other parts of the country besides the major cities. Not everyone can make it to AC or Cleveland. Route 95 runs right though Richmond and the airport is 15 minutes from downtown. It’s a great location.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Besides being too small, I'm not envisioning many people being interested in heading to Richmond for a week. While one side of the argument can say it's a decent midpoint for NY/NJ and Florida collectors (both of which represent a huge portion of the hobby), others just wouldn't understand it as a destination for such an event. I'm quite amazed how much it's been brought up in this thread.

I think I've asked this before, but what about Cincinnati? What a perfect town from a baseball history perspective. It's also going to be about the same amount of travel for most people as going to Chicago. There has to be a space with enough room in that city, doesn't there? Lots of hotels.

Similarly, how about St. Louis? Might bring in more people from west of the Mississippi. Let's make everyone travel!

With the rich baseball histories of both cities, in addition to the fact that they were both historically booming places, there would be a lot of opportunities for great surprise walk-in discoveries!

[Bigdaddy]

I may be wrong, but I'm guessing that more dealers had rather spend the night in a casino than at a ballpark.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by BillyCox3

Besides being too small, I'm not envisioning many people being interested in heading to Richmond for a week. While one side of the argument can say it's a decent midpoint for NY/NJ and Florida collectors (both of which represent a huge portion of the hobby), others just wouldn't understand it as a destination for such an event. I'm quite amazed how much it's been brought up in this thread.

Richmond is 2 hours from Virginia Beach, 2 hours from DC and 2 hours from the mountains. Baltimore is an easy 3 hour drive. The city is a foodie destination with tons of Civil War history, NASCAR and Class IV rapids running right through the city on the James River. Historic Charlottesville is an hour to the west and Colonial Williamsburg is 45 minutes to the east. With Route 95 (north and south) and Route 64 (east and west) running through the city, its a great location for those traveling by car. Richmond International airport is here, Norfolk International is 90 minutes away, and Dulles or Reagan airports are 90 minutes to 2 hours north. That's 4 major airports nearby.

Richmond deserves serious consideration.

[Jewish-collector]

I used to love the Tuff Stuff shows at the Virginia State Fairgrounds in the 1990's beer chug.gif

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I used to love the Tuff Stuff shows at the Virginia State Fairgrounds in the 1990's Attachment 532141

I moved to Richmond in late 1997 and enjoyed the remaining years of the Tuff Stuff shows. They had quality autograph guests and put on a great show.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I would be fine with it staying in Rosemont.
.

Me too. It is an easy trip and always a pleasant show.

And pizza!

[Sportsnutcards]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

Richmond is 2 hours from Virginia Beach, 2 hours from DC and 2 hours from the mountains. Baltimore is an easy 3 hour drive. The city is a foodie destination with tons of Civil War history, NASCAR and Class IV rapids running right through the city on the James River. Historic Charlottesville is an hour to the west and Colonial Williamsburg is 45 minutes to the east. With Route 95 (north and south) and Route 64 (east and west) running through the city, its a great location for those traveling by car. Richmond International airport is here, Norfolk International is 90 minutes away, and Dulles or Reagan airports are 90 minutes to 2 hours north. That's 4 major airports nearby.

Richmond deserves serious consideration.

There is no way that they would be looking to go to a smaller venue. They are looking to expand the size of the show, not make it smaller. I am also in the keep it in Chicago every year camp.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Sportsnutcards

There is no way that they would be looking to go to a smaller venue. They are looking to expand the size of the show, not make it smaller. I am also in the keep it in Chicago every year camp.

If the people in charge of the show think that, then that is exactly the pedestrian thinking that will not allow the hobby to grow. You have to bring the hobby to people who otherwise won't get to experience a show like that. Doing a smaller venue entices people to go visit the larger venue the next year because then they're hooked. Richmond used to have the Tuff Stuff shows here for years and they were extremely well received. CSA does major sportscard shows in Northern Virginia and they do well and have great autograph guests.

Do Richmond, then Chicago, then another smaller city, then another larger one.

[Jewish-collector]

I'm not sure, but I believe the decision on the National's location for 2024 and 2025 gets decided this week. beer chug.gif

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If the people in charge of the show think that, then that is exactly the pedestrian thinking that will not allow the hobby to grow. You have to bring the hobby to people who otherwise won't get to experience a show like that. Doing a smaller venue entices people to go visit the larger venue the next year because then they're hooked. Richmond used to have the Tuff Stuff shows here for years and they were extremely well received. CSA does major sportscard shows in Northern Virginia and they do well and have great autograph guests.

Do Richmond, then Chicago, then another smaller city, then another larger one.

Appreciate your passion for Richmond. Not seeing the national happen there though. The Civil War history there that you referenced before is probably not a big draw for many.

[ValKehl]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If the people in charge of the show think that, then that is exactly the pedestrian thinking that will not allow the hobby to grow. You have to bring the hobby to people who otherwise won't get to experience a show like that. Doing a smaller venue entices people to go visit the larger venue the next year because then they're hooked. Richmond used to have the Tuff Stuff shows here for years and they were extremely well received. CSA does major sportscard shows in Northern Virginia and they do well and have great autograph guests.

Do Richmond, then Chicago, then another smaller city, then another larger one.

Jim, I've lived in No. Va. my entire life, and I enjoyed going to the Tuff Stuff Shows back in the 1990's. But, tell me Jim, what caused their demise? Naturally, I'd love for the National to be held in Richmond, but quite frankly, there isn't a snowball's chance. BTW, how many Nationals have you attended (not trying to be mean - just curious)?

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Appreciate your passion for Richmond. Not seeing the national happen there though. The Civil War history there that you referenced before is probably not a big draw for many.

I can certainly understand that, but its just one of the many cool things here.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by ValKehl

Jim, I've lived in No. Va. my entire life, and I enjoyed going to the Tuff Stuff Shows back in the 1990's. But, tell me Jim, what caused their demise? Naturally, I'd love for the National to be held in Richmond, but quite frankly, there isn't a snowball's chance. BTW, how many Nationals have you attended (not trying to be mean - just curious)?

If I remember correctly, the company that owned the Tuff Stuff show was bought out by Krause Publications and moved shop to Iowa, maybe?

I have been to 2 Nationals. Both of them were more years ago than I care to think about and probably older than than some people here. I have also been to dozens of card shows over the years, both large and small. I would have loved to attend more Nationals over the years but job and family cut into that. I had actually thought about making the drive up 95 to AC but other things became a priority, sadly.

[isiahfan]

I like Chicago...many flights, variety of other entertainment that should hit everyone's desires, lakefront, food, sports, etc. I am happy with how they have it now with Chigao every other year though...every year and you are still in theory eliminating a portion of your audience (travelers with limited mobility, those that can only drive, etc.). What I think would be a better option is truly rotating that "off year" all over. Cleveland has done well...then jump it to LA...then Houston....Orlando...Vegas...AC (ugh)....try to reach as many people a you can. I am happy to go every other year if it lands in a location I don't want to haul my butt to on the "off years"...and if it lands in a place convenient to me...Cleveland, LV, LA, San Diego, Detroit, etc...great....but try to cater to the larger community.

[Snapolit1]

I think that’s a solid take. I like AC because it is convenient for me and I like the casino diversion, but Chicago every other year and a rotation of 5-6 other locations makes a lot of sense. If I was a dealer I would be concerned about an untested location bombing but that’s prob not likely in this environment.

QUOTE=isiahfan;2259140]I like Chicago...many flights, variety of other

entertainment that should hit everyone's desires, lakefront, food, sports, etc. I am happy with how they have it now with Chigao every other year though...every year and you are still in theory eliminating a portion of your audience (travelers with limited mobility, those that can only drive, etc.). What I think would be a better option is truly rotating that "off year" all over. Cleveland has done well...then jump it to LA...then Houston....Orlando...Vegas...AC (ugh)....try to reach as many people a you can. I am happy to go every other year if it lands in a location I don't want to haul my butt to on the "off years"...and if it lands in a place convenient to me...Cleveland, LV, LA, San Diego, Detroit, etc...great....but try to cater to the larger community.[/QUOTE]

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Me too. It is an easy trip and always a pleasant show.

And pizza!

Pizza? You mean that four inch deep fondue of cheese and sauce?

[Huck]

Originally Posted by Vintagedeputy

If I remember correctly, the company that owned the Tuff Stuff show was bought out by Krause Publications and moved shop to Iowa, maybe?

I have been to 2 Nationals. Both of them were more years ago than I care to think about and probably older than than some people here. I have also been to dozens of card shows over the years, both large and small. I would have loved to attend more Nationals over the years but job and family cut into that. I had actually thought about making the drive up 95 to AC but other things became a priority, sadly.

Correct, Tuff-Stuff sold to Krause publications. I recall one of the last Tuff-Stuff shows where the owners (brothers I believe) were sitting at a table near the entrance answering questions. Not an engaging happy pair. I knew then, that Krause was not going to continue promoting shows. The Tuff-Stuff shows coupled with the monthly show in Tysons Corner was a boon for my collection.

[Snapolit1]

FUTURE NATIONAL SITES ANNOUNCED
The results of the ballot sent to eligible voters are in and the NSCC Board of Directors is pleased to announce the sites for future events.

2023 Chicago (Rosemont) July 26-30, 2023
2024 Cleveland IX Center July 24-28, 2024
2025 Chicago (Rosemont) July 30-August 3, 2025

[isiahfan]

Generally super happy with this...but would really hope the next location listed is West of Chicago.

[Vintagedeputy]

Originally Posted by Huck

The Tuff-Stuff shows coupled with the monthly show in Tysons Corner was a boon for my collection.

Same here. Virginia is still alive and well for sports memorabilia collectors. I just started setting up at a show in Virginia Beach and the crowds have been good.