Beware of Beckett!

[55koufax]

I was never aware of this (my own stupidity) before I decided to try Beckett for grading cards for the first time after only doing bulk subs with PSA for 15 years.
In August 2020 I shipped them over 850 cards with the agreement they would match PSA at the time and give me a bulk rate price of $8 per. Fair enough. What I did not understand is that they charge for their services IN FULL well in advance of any service being performed (other than logging cards in and sticking them on the rear of some shelf). Over six months ago they charged my AMEX IN FULL to the tune of $7,300. Waiting over 19 months since they received my cards for something to pop. Still zero. I contacted my rep several times over the this long haul, each and every time getting nothing but apologies, however, when I called them out for collecting funds over six months in advance and still not one card has been graded, he offered this " We charge the cards ahead of time so that when the order does get to labeling there is no holdup in processing. An order can not get through labeling unless it has been paid for." Anyone else had or having this experience?

[rjackson44]

jesus james 850 cards wow

[Snapolit1]

Waiting over 19 months to get cards back . . . I can't imagine. I just can't.

[Bobbycee]

Ask for your money back ASAP. Send your cards to SGC.

[Rich Klein]

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

The Marx card debacle was on them and NOT PSA. They were the ones accepting money up front and instead of putting it in escrow, they spent it like it was theirs!!! The money WAS NOT theirs!! It was earmarked to go to PSA.

[drcy]

The upfront payment is fine. The 19 months wait is not. That's closing in on two years! I know of the waits in card grading, but in any other industry these delays would result in lawsuits and perhaps even State Attorney General intervention. It's bordering on that this almost isn't a legitimate business model.

[55koufax]

Somehow I missed this Marx debacle....

That said, with all the changes in this industry, bulk rate submissions are history.

Looks like there is an opening for a grading company who is willing to service bulk rate clients.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

Wow! Wasn't aware of this till just now reading that link. As others have noted, Marx was in a sort of fiduciary capacity in that they collected grading fees on behalf of customers, which was never their money. They were also paid their service fees, up front in most cases apparently, which should have been the only money they were using to cover their ongoing costs. So, I would hope that bankruptcy be damned, and that the Marx owner(s) can be held personally liable to some extent for those customer's grading fees they should have never spent.

Probably the way the customer contracts/agreements are worded will be vague enough, or otherwise worded, to get them out of any normal personal liability for the bankrupt company's debts though. This is assuming of course that the company was set up in such a way that it afforded personal liability protection to the owner(s) in the first place.

Regardless, glad to hear that PSA stepped up and will not charge the customers the grading fees they had already paid to Marx. I wonder if the old, publicly held, PSA would have been so generous? A few very well off, private owners getting together to make such an image positive decision is one thing. Getting thousands and thousands of shareholders to think that is the right thing to do is quite another though.

[CurtisFlood]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

19 months is a long time but in Beckett's defense on charging cards earlier -- let me remind you of the Marx Card debacle earlier this year with PSA

https://www.sportscollectorsdaily.co...or-bankruptcy/

I get the card should be charged closer to when the cards are, you know, graded. But the TPG's have to protect themselves as well and the Marx card story was a heck of a wake up call

Rich

Wow Rich! Marx must have been doing a lot of skimming.

[Jay Wolt]

Originally Posted by Bobbycee

Ask for your money back ASAP. Send your cards to SGC.

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

[mrreality68]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

+ 1 agreed.

Huge price difference but super long wait

[glchen]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

He paid $7300. at $8 each for his +850 cards
W/ SGC's $30 cost, it would cost him in excess of $25,500
Either way, its a tough pill to swallow

I know it's difficult, but I'm of the opinion that the OP should just continue to wait even if it's another year before he sees his cards back (after they are graded). The $8/card grading fee is most likely a thing of the past, and I wouldn't be surprised if it's at least $15/card in the future. I completely understand that it's very difficult to continue waiting but hopefully the value of the cards at Beckett has appreciated in the meantime.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by 55koufax

I was never aware of this (my own stupidity) before I decided to try Beckett for grading cards for the first time after only doing bulk subs with PSA for 15 years.
In August 2020 I shipped them over 850 cards with the agreement they would match PSA at the time and give me a bulk rate price of $8 per. Fair enough. What I did not understand is that they charge for their services IN FULL well in advance of any service being performed (other than logging cards in and sticking them on the rear of some shelf). Over six months ago they charged my AMEX IN FULL to the tune of $7,300. Waiting over 19 months since they received my cards for something to pop. Still zero. I contacted my rep several times over the this long haul, each and every time getting nothing but apologies, however, when I called them out for collecting funds over six months in advance and still not one card has been graded, he offered this " We charge the cards ahead of time so that when the order does get to labeling there is no holdup in processing. An order can not get through labeling unless it has been paid for." Anyone else had or having this experience?

It just occurred to me what a crock of BS this answer you got is. If they have your credit card to charge, they could have simply waited till the order was ready to go to labeling and then run the charge through. It doesn't take hours or days to successfully run a credit card charge through, just a few minutes or so, at most. So in truth, there is no delay, unless they honestly believe that holding your money for 6 months or more is a perfectly justifiable reason for them not having maybe a 5 minute or so delay to run your CC through prior to the labeling. What they told you their reasoning was for charging you so many months in advance of finally doing the work you have been waiting for them to do is a blatant, bald-faced, BS lie.

It does however improve their cash flow, and also allows them to now invest your money they are holding and earn interest off of it. And we have all seen and heard how interest rates look like they may be starting to rise. Although not necessarily a huge revenue source for them, it is still your money that you could be earning some interest income on, or at least not incurring CC interest charges on, instead. Hell, even the federal government pays you interest when they take too long to get you your tax refund. Why should any TPG have a preferential interest or advantage over our own federal government?

And now, TPGs may use this Marx case to further justify collecting even more money, even farther in advance of them performing the work they are supposed to do. If anything, this actually works to de-incentivize them to hurry up and get people's cards back to them. What's their rush, they already have your cards, and now your money. You can't suddenly do something else or go anywhere else. At least not without it likely costing you even more.

[FrankWakefield]

Think of the cards that could be bought with the money spent on getting cards graded. And add to that pile of cards a vacuum in your consciousness where the angst, worry, anticipation, and frustration associated with dealing with the card graders once was.

Or think about fewer cards and more anxiety and stress...


If any of the big graders with slab machines offered to come to my home, at my convenience, sit in the back yard with me and all of my cards and stuff, and to grade everything I could put before them, right there on the spot, and it'd take 30 minutes to get it done, all for a fee of $5... I'd decline that offer. I value my 30 minutes and my $5 bill more that their plastic and opinions.

I cannot comprehend you guys paying PSA or SGC thousands of dollars. And I'm sure my thought processes or lack thereof don't make sense to some of you.


I have a T206 Cy Young in an SGC slab that I've not broken out. The slip says it's a Sweet Caporal, but when the slab is flipped over there's a blue Piedmont back. Did they just screw up and check they wrong box on one of their forms? Or are two cards stuck together? Or what?? If I had bought that card ungraded then I'd know what I have. With it in the slab I'm not sure of what I have there. And I'm not sure about you guys spending thousands of dollars or more for someone else's opinion of what you have.

Maybe next time you're thinking of sending a bunch of cards somewhere to be graded, get more clarity of how they will bill you at varying stages, or take that grading money and buy a few more cards (cards you'll get in hand way sooner than a grading company could be done with you).

[T205 GB]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

If any of the big graders with slab machines offered to come to my home, at my convenience, sit in the back yard with me and all of my cards and stuff, and to grade everything I could put before them, right there on the spot, and it'd take 30 minutes to get it done, all for a fee of $5... I'd decline that offer. I value my 30 minutes and my $5 bill more that their plastic and opinions.

Frank there are some companies out there that will just add a diamond or purple sticker to your top loaders and make them just as valuable as graded cards lol.

I am of the same opinion that no grading company is worth using but its unfortunate that its the only way to max profits on some cards. No one in the hobby wants an honest grading company. Without dishonesty there is no money to be made.

[SAllen2556]

Originally Posted by BobC

It just occurred to me what a crock of BS this answer you got is. If they have your credit card to charge, they could have simply waited till the order was ready to go to labeling and then run the charge through. It doesn't take hours or days to successfully run a credit card charge through, just a few minutes or so, at most. So in truth, there is no delay, unless they honestly believe that holding your money for 6 months or more is a perfectly justifiable reason for them not having maybe a 5 minute or so delay to run your CC through prior to the labeling. What they told you their reasoning was for charging you so many months in advance of finally doing the work you have been waiting for them to do is a blatant, bald-faced, BS lie.

It does however improve their cash flow, and also allows them to now invest your money they are holding and earn interest off of it. And we have all seen and heard how interest rates look like they may be starting to rise. Although not necessarily a huge revenue source for them, it is still your money that you could be earning some interest income on, or at least not incurring CC interest charges on, instead. Hell, even the federal government pays you interest when they take too long to get you your tax refund. Why should any TPG have a preferential interest or advantage over our own federal government?

And now, TPGs may use this Marx case to further justify collecting even more money, even farther in advance of them performing the work they are supposed to do. If anything, this actually works to de-incentivize them to hurry up and get people's cards back to them. What's their rush, they already have your cards, and now your money. You can't suddenly do something else or go anywhere else. At least not without it likely costing you even more.

The problem is you can't rely on a credit card being good 6 months after you have the number in hand. I run credit cards often, and in today's world, people's credit cards are flagged for fraud much more frequently than in the past. If I had a big order I'd feel like I had to run the card now and not risk the chance of the card not being good 6 months from now. It might not even be legal to run a credit card 6 months after you get the number, or at the very least, ok with the credit card company. Even as a customer, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a company keep my credit card number around for 6 months before running it.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

The problem is you can't rely on a credit card being good 6 months after you have the number in hand. I run credit cards often, and in today's world, people's credit cards are flagged for fraud much more frequently than in the past. If I had a big order I'd feel like I had to run the card now and not risk the chance of the card not being good 6 months from now. It might not even be legal to run a credit card 6 months after you get the number, or at the very least, ok with the credit card company. Even as a customer, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a company keep my credit card number around for 6 months before running it.

Well if Beckett or PSA or whoever has a business model in which it takes nearly 2 years for them to grade a submission of cards, they should institute a practice in which they have to contact a customer and double check their Payment method, just before the cards enter the actual grading process.

There's no reason why anybody should have to pay for any service that far ahead of the actual service being performed, beyond a minimal deposit.

I understand that some submitters do actually do this voluntarily when submitting through a bulk service in order to save a few bucks, entrusting the submission service to actually be responsible with their money when the time comes for their cards to actually be graded.

I don't get it...but I do understand it.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by SAllen2556

The problem is you can't rely on a credit card being good 6 months after you have the number in hand. I run credit cards often, and in today's world, people's credit cards are flagged for fraud much more frequently than in the past. If I had a big order I'd feel like I had to run the card now and not risk the chance of the card not being good 6 months from now. It might not even be legal to run a credit card 6 months after you get the number, or at the very least, ok with the credit card company. Even as a customer, I wouldn't feel comfortable having a company keep my credit card number around for 6 months before running it.

But Scott, in this case the poster said they'd already held his cards for around 19 months, but had only had their credit card charged about 6 months ago. So, they already had the CC number for over a year before using it. And it is not illegal to give someone your credit card to use on an ongoing basis. For example, XBox charges my CC every year for their annual Gold Service membership, various AHs require having a CC number on file, and on and on. I have no idea where you ever got the idea that giving some business your CC number to use going forward was ever illegal.

And in this case, if there was a change or problem with the CC after so much time had passed, when the TPG goes to run the card through before the labeling occurs and the CC charge doesn't go through, they simply put the order aside and contact the submitter. But this charging the CC before your cards go to labeling still doesn't make sense. Think about it, if the TPG was really so concerned with avoiding delays, why would they wait till AFTER the cards had actually been examined and graded, and only get concerned when they were on their way to labeling. Doing the actual review and exam of the cards takes them time and money as well. Don't you think a normal business with such a supposed concern about delays and all would have run the CC through then before doing any work or incurring any costs or time in grading the cards? Why would anyone pick some arbitrary point midway in their grading process to draw the line as to when they needed to make sure the CC charge would go through for the grading? That's why I'm calling BS on the excuse of an answer they gave the OP.

[chalupacollects]

And now, TPGs may use this Marx case to further justify collecting even more money, even farther in advance of them performing the work they are supposed to do. If anything, this actually works to de-incentivize them to hurry up and get people's cards back to them. What's their rush, they already have your cards, and now your money. You can't suddenly do something else or go anywhere else. At least not without it likely costing you even more.[/QUOTE]

No, actually their credit card processors would frown about charging upfront. There are very few SIC categories where a merchant can charge in advance for future delivery of goods and services. Not sure how BGS is getting away with this unless they somehow convinced the processor's rep to misclassify them or are paying a premium rate to do so...

[Gorditadogg]

Bob I don't want to say your posts are long, but I can use up my phone battery just scrolling through to get to the next one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

Bob I don't want to say your posts are long, but I can use up my phone battery just scrolling through to get to the next one.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Then just put me on ignore.

[Gorditadogg]

Originally Posted by BobC

Then just put me on ignore.

There you go! Much better.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

[chriskim]

I think they lost your cards. Keep waiting won't help. Good Luck.

[BobC]

Originally Posted by Gorditadogg

There you go! Much better.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Right back at you!

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am told PSA filed a motion to return the Marx cards to their owners and that the motion was just heard and apparently for the moment denied, but I don't see the ruling on the docket. A tweet from Jackie Curiel suggests PSA needs to do more to comply with the court's order but there doesn't appear to have been some ruling that the cards belong to the debtor's estate. What Todd said sounds right to me, that the cards are not going to become property of Marx's estate just because the owners did not file a UCC-1 when they gave Marx their cards to submit to PSA. That seems like a classic bailment which if memory serves does not require a UCC-1. But I wouldn't bet heavily on that result.