PWCC green cobb psa 5.5 going through the roof

[pkaufman]

Total SHILL marketplace.......check out the bidder percentages and see for yourself.

[CMIZ5290]

card ended at almost $16k....Does anybody need a PSA 8 with a qualifier?

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by Stonepony

We've heard from him before. He's all over it...I think.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ons+legitimate

[pkaufman]

Laughable !

[calvindog]

Wildly inflated prices on easily found cards, massive bid retractions of high bidders -- who only bid on PWCC auctions, troll accounts set up for the sole purpose of ripping critics. And yet the dimwits will support the guy even after he was caught juicing scans, lied about it on Net 54 and got caught, helped bidders avoid paying sales tax and is "all over" the shill bidders in his auctions -- except he's not. Same idiotic defense of Mastro and Allen from 8-9 years ago and look how that ended. If it looks like a fraud, walks like a fraud and smells like a fraud in this hobby you can be damn sure it's a fraud. Wake up -- or don't.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Wildly inflated prices on easily found cards, massive bid retractions of high bidders -- who only bid on PWCC auctions, troll accounts set up for the sole purpose of ripping critics. And yet the dimwits will support the guy even after he was caught juicing scans, lied about it on Net 54 and got caught, helped bidders avoid paying sales tax and is "all over" the shill bidders in his auctions -- except he's not. Same idiotic defense of Mastro and Allen from 8-9 years ago and look how that ended. If it looks like a fraud, walks like a fraud and smells like a fraud in this hobby you can be damn sure it's a fraud. Wake up -- or don't.

many of the sales are on par with heritage though...in fact heritage and many of the AHs have the major records highs that are pacing the market over PWCC...so it has to be occurring everywhere...

[pkaufman]

If you doctored cards, where would you send them for auction. Ask yourself.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

If you doctored cards, where would you send them for auction. Ask yourself.

Oh I think they spread the wealth around.

[pkaufman]

Peter, well put.....buyer beware !

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

Peter, well put.....buyer beware !

Amen to that.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

If you doctored cards, where would you send them for auction. Ask yourself.

who knows but there are sure to be the same cad with the same same Cert number ..not every card is doctored....if everything is about doctoring then the problem isn't with pwcc its with the third party graders...the bidding also is more legit because the card doctor is truly paying that higher price.....it not the responsibility of the auction house to know why a bidder wants a card..

[pkaufman]

Not every card is doctored = TRUE

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

Not every card is doctored = TRUE

not sure why card doctoring is even a factor of discussion...if you have a card that's borderline than maybe more people want it including card doctoring.....if PSA catches the doctoring then the card gets an Authentic and the doctor is out the money...however the auction buy from the card doctor is a legit bid......I thought we were talking about fake bids and fake accounts ...card doctoring is not an issue about real bids....

[pkaufman]

Card doctors will obviously NOT want to auction their own cards !

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Wildly inflated prices on easily found cards, massive bid retractions of high bidders -- who only bid on PWCC auctions, troll accounts set up for the sole purpose of ripping critics. And yet the dimwits will support the guy even after he was caught juicing scans, lied about it on Net 54 and got caught, helped bidders avoid paying sales tax and is "all over" the shill bidders in his auctions -- except he's not. Same idiotic defense of Mastro and Allen from 8-9 years ago and look how that ended. If it looks like a fraud, walks like a fraud and smells like a fraud in this hobby you can be damn sure it's a fraud. Wake up -- or don't.

I mean seriously people!!!! Jbonie was right...the market is being manipulated by the mafia!

[pawpawdiv9]

@JustinD: I almost bought that Delong Gehrig. But decided a few days ago, to let it go. I had planned to use Gavelsnipe for the 1st time and probably would of won it at the price i had typed in or atleast jacked it up more, because i didnt have to worry about Buyer premiums. Wonder any board members ended up with it?? It was a nice 2 and centered.

[sbfinley]

I have nothing against Brent or PWCC, but if you changed his name to Rick he'd be sitting in front of Joseph McCarthy by this point of the thread. I've bought from him before. Great cards, great scans, great shipping, and pleased, but I'm just lost at how he regularly gets 20%-30% more than major auction houses on big ticket items. I think he has built somewhat of a cult for his auctions (especially in the PSA circles), but you would have to deaf, blind, and mute to not believe there is bid manipulation on some consignments. I think "certified high-end" is a bit cartoonish as well, yet he's carved a position and career in the hobby. Kudos to him.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

I have nothing against Brent or PWCC, but if you changed his name to Rick he'd be sitting in front of Joseph McCarthy by this point of the thread. I've bought from him before. Great cards, great scans, great shipping, and pleased, but I'm just lost at how he regularly gets 20%-30% more than major auction houses on big ticket items. I think he has built somewhat of a cult for his auctions (especially in the PSA circles), but you would have to deaf, blind, and mute to not believe there is bid manipulation on some consignments. I think "certified high-end" is a bit cartoonish as well, yet he's carved a position and career in the hobby. Kudos to him.

This was a really well-articulated point. I agree with everything you mentioned, including my own personal satisfaction with their service and admiration of the business they've built.

I also have a theory that, when compared to AHs, I think ebay auctions tend to attract more "stupid money." Not saying that the bidders are unintelligent people, but I think the the low bid increments and the firm ending clock probably drive more emotional bidding of people who simply want to "win" more than procure a card. Plus, the universe of potential buyers - without the vetting done by an AH - is probably less sophisticated and contains those who are not as attuned about market pricing (hell, I was there once before I discovered AHs). I think the AHs probably attract a more savvy, experienced collector (and a lot of dealers) who are less likely to drive up prices for the sake of the rush. I know that happens, but my hypothesis is that it has a tendency to happen more on ebay auctions because of the structure and bidder population.

[forazzurri2axz]

Originally Posted by Leon

For those keeping score this is a confirmed cockroach that crawled in under the door. Same thing as always, I call them out, say lets have a chat and they go all F bomb in emails. I have my ideas on who it is but it doesn't matter anymore....Cockroaches usually get stomped on.

If I ever see one in the house I catch it and throw it outside!!! don't like killing any animals but need to go now and eat the leftover steak from last night at the restaurant.

[bobbyw8469]

but I'm just lost at how he regularly gets 20%-30% more than major auction houses on big ticket items.

If that is the case, then how easy is it for one to just buy normal cards on Ebay, consign them to Brent, and collect the 20-30% "juice" markup?? Maybe it's easier said than done. I know on my consignments, I don't see a huge increase. Some consignments even lost me a pretty penny. Then again, I don't bid up my own consignments, so maybe therein lies the rub.

[Brent Huigens]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Would love to hear from Brent at PWCC who does this for a living what he thinks about these bid retractions. Why so many for some of these bidders? What are the circumstances around using them? Just trying to get my head around justifying the legitimacy of both bidders with super high percentage of bids with one seller AND lots of retractions.

I've posted a few times on bid retractions in the past and also posted again on the T206 Plank thread to discuss it further. For those who are not reading every thread I'll comment here again:

Bottom line, bid retractions are a simple but serious problem with the eBay system and we are working as hard as is humanly possible with eBay to have them update their software and bring about better control. Ebay has rules, and they simply don't enforce them.

For us, we report each and every bid retraction we receive to eBay Trust & Safety. Those in violation are warned and then suspended by eBay if the action occurs again. This is nowhere near good enough.

One point I want to convey is while some bidders may have 5, 10, 20+ bid retractions over the last year, none or at least very very few of those are with PWCC Auctions. We monitor the IDs of members who inappropriately retract bids if we see that act more than once the bid is blocked. if the bid retraction appears to be manipulative (i.e. to expose a high bid, etc) we block that user immediately on the first offense.

The biggest problem is that most users don't know they are breaking the rules. Sure, they probably regret retracting a bid, but without any punishment the act of bid retractions becomes something of a habit. I frequently get the 'I didn't know I was breaking any rules' response when we confront a bidder on their first offense.

Again, we are working with eBay on this topic and hope to have some positive progress later this year. Once we have something concrete we'll announce it on the boards.

Regards,

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[Brent Huigens]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Wildly inflated prices on easily found cards, massive bid retractions of high bidders -- who only bid on PWCC auctions, troll accounts set up for the sole purpose of ripping critics. And yet the dimwits will support the guy even after he was caught juicing scans, lied about it on Net 54 and got caught, helped bidders avoid paying sales tax and is "all over" the shill bidders in his auctions -- except he's not. Same idiotic defense of Mastro and Allen from 8-9 years ago and look how that ended. If it looks like a fraud, walks like a fraud and smells like a fraud in this hobby you can be damn sure it's a fraud. Wake up -- or don't.

I want to be a part of the Net54 board, but posts like this make it difficult for me to feel comfortable posting and being active member.

All of these accusations are items that we’ve addressed multiple times in multiple threads. If by chance there’s something new and specific that posses a concern, we are happy to address it, but ask that folks please respect the purpose the thread’s origination and if needed, start a new thread.

In general if there’s a concern (or especially if it’s an accusation) we respectfully request that specific auctions and/or bidders be referenced such that we can properly address the concerns. Blanket allegations are impossible to address.

Regards,

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[Brent Huigens]

We certainly received some eyebrow raising finishing prices last night, but honestly, this T206 Cobb was not one of them

My pre-auction estimate for this card was $12-$15k. I highly doubt anyone will ever see another example that looks this good sell for anything less. I personally believe a strong PSA 7 would easily eclipse $50k at auction, so it seems perfectly reasonable that an EX+/EXMT example with NRMT qualities is worth 1/3 the PSA 7 price.

The entire hobby is maturing, and blue-chip cards with high-end eye appeal are consistently fetching record prices... as they should. Just my two cents.

P.S. for those questioning the bidding, I would happy to provide specific bidder details to Leon Lucky for his review and comment. All 3 of the top bidders are highly reputable and consistent buyers of ours.

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by jcmtiger

Maybe I should put this one up for sale

Joe

Maybe you should just donate it to me

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Leon

I don't understand some ebayers. Here is the buyer of the Cobbs feedback..18 bid retractions in 6 months. Most of us have almost 0 in forever. I think I have 0-1 total in around 16 yrs

I should add that I think PWCC is a good seller and is honest. ....(and they are an advertiser). I think I have bought from them before and would again.


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 202
Items bid on: 148
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 87% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 18



.

PWCC honest? Yes they are maybe as honest as ..........

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

I want to be a part of the Net54 board, but posts like this make it difficult for me to feel comfortable posting and being active member.

All of these accusations are items that we’ve addressed multiple times in multiple threads. If by chance there’s something new and specific that posses a concern, we are happy to address it, but ask that folks please respect the purpose the thread’s origination and if needed, start a new thread.

In general if there’s a concern (or especially if it’s an accusation) we respectfully request that specific auctions and/or bidders be referenced such that we can properly address the concerns. Blanket allegations are impossible to address.

Regards,

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions

Brent, it wasn't a blanket allegation to note that you lied about your juiced scans -- and got caught on Net 54. You also offered to help California residents evade sales tax on purchases. You also used to allow consignors to bid on their own lots. http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ons+legitimate

Finally, many of your high bidders have massive amounts of bid retractions which, to most on this board, seems fishy.

None of these issues are "impossible to address" -- unless what you mean is that it is impossible to offer an innocent explanation.

PS Doug Allen used to do the same thing on Net 54: claim it was all a witch hunt and blame me for starting it. Hope it works out better for you. And if you feel I'm libeling you, feel free to sue me.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Brent Huigens

We certainly received some eyebrow raising finishing prices last night, but honestly, this T206 Cobb was not one of them

My pre-auction estimate for this card was $12-$15k. I highly doubt anyone will ever see another example that looks this good sell for anything less. I personally believe a strong PSA 7 would easily eclipse $50k at auction, so it seems perfectly reasonable that an EX+/EXMT example with NRMT qualities is worth 1/3 the PSA 7 price.

The entire hobby is maturing, and blue-chip cards with high-end eye appeal are consistently fetching record prices... as they should. Just my two cents.

P.S. for those questioning the bidding, I would happy to provide specific bidder details to Leon Lucky for his review and comment. All 3 of the top bidders are highly reputable and consistent buyers of ours.

Brent Huigens
PWCC Auctions

Brent you call them blue chip...I call the waterfront/waterside properties..

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

This was a really well-articulated point. I agree with everything you mentioned, including my own personal satisfaction with their service and admiration of the business they've built.

I also have a theory that, when compared to AHs, I think ebay auctions tend to attract more "stupid money." Not saying that the bidders are unintelligent people, but I think the the low bid increments and the firm ending clock probably drive more emotional bidding of people who simply want to "win" more than procure a card. Plus, the universe of potential buyers - without the vetting done by an AH - is probably less sophisticated and contains those who are not as attuned about market pricing (hell, I was there once before I discovered AHs). I think the AHs probably attract a more savvy, experienced collector (and a lot of dealers) who are less likely to drive up prices for the sake of the rush. I know that happens, but my hypothesis is that it has a tendency to happen more on ebay auctions because of the structure and bidder population.

well there are many factors..i have consigned with Brent and I have gotten good results overall and will continue to use PWCC but several cards went for under VCP...people like to talk about the 20%-30%in extra inflated prices as a blanket statement..but its usually because you are focusing on the waterfront properties/blue chip cards....and you overlook results that don't help your argument...you aren't checking out the 1952 Topps PSA 6 common...they certainly aren't blowing up VCP.....if you stop focusing on the top 5% of the cards in the hobby you may see just a well run auction and stop assuming inflated prices....go consign your cards and let us know.....you will find when you consign your cards you may singing a different tune...

I have also found that I had a direct sale fall through because of price and that the same guy who refused to pay my asking price bid that much with PWCC..which cost me fees and I ended up netting less but for whatever reason the buyer would rather pay ebay the fees..

ebay allows for credit cards....which many AHs don't allow or charge additional fees...also PWCC doesn't have sales tax to most of the high bidders...those are factors....plus there is ebay bucks as well which on a 1000 dollar card could be a 10% savings for people on certain days.....$100 off..

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by iwantitiwinit

I don't know, I would need to see the id's and bidding history of the people winning the Heritage auctions but that transparency doesn't exist.

+++ Exactly. REA/Mile High/Memory Lane/Heritage/H&S....all have one thing in common; proprietary bidding software with no transparency. If you want to make an argument about shilling, start their first.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Wildly inflated prices on easily found cards, massive bid retractions of high bidders -- who only bid on PWCC auctions, troll accounts set up for the sole purpose of ripping critics. And yet the dimwits will support the guy even after he was caught juicing scans, lied about it on Net 54 and got caught, helped bidders avoid paying sales tax and is "all over" the shill bidders in his auctions -- except he's not. Same idiotic defense of Mastro and Allen from 8-9 years ago and look how that ended. If it looks like a fraud, walks like a fraud and smells like a fraud in this hobby you can be damn sure it's a fraud. Wake up -- or don't.

Settle down Francis. We get your point, you love Auctions that have no transparency. OK, got it.

[Beastmode]

Originally Posted by pkaufman

Total SHILL marketplace.......check out the bidder percentages and see for yourself.

I hear this a lot on both forums, but IMO, not much relevance for shilling by looking at % of bids. I also have a very high percent with PWCC, but that's because they have the cards I want, and I can snipe, and I don't have to stay up until 3:00 AM while an auction closes three different times.

[calvindog]

They have the cards you want? Yeah, they have such an eclectic selection of cards found nowhere else on eBay, I can understand how you could mainly bid on their auctions; tough to find a PSA 5 1953 Topps Mantle any place else. As for transparency, Brent comes onto Net 54, gets caught in lies, leaves. His auctions are filled with fraud. Very transparent. Transparency really helps.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

They have the cards you want? Yeah, they have such an eclectic selection of cards found nowhere else on eBay, I can understand how you could mainly bid on their auctions; tough to find a PSA 5 1953 Topps Mantle any place else. As for transparency, Brent comes onto Net 54, gets caught in lies, leaves. His auctions are filled with fraud. Very transparent. Transparency really helps.

well you can find many of the same graded cards on ebay with BIN's that 90% of the time are for sale and/or the seller wants more than what they would sell for at a PWCC auction..so yeah you can buy away with BINs and avoid being shilled up to amount less than you will pay with BIN

[bobbyw8469]

tough to find a PSA 5 1953 Topps Mantle any place else.

LOL....How about the rare 1968 Roberto Clemente PSA 4? Yea - I never got that either. There are many sellers on Ebay with good cards. Yet don't seem to get the run-up that PWCC does. Not that I'm knocking it. I'm actually rather envious.

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

well you can find many of the same graded cards on ebay with BIN's that 90% of the time are for sale and/or the seller wants more than what they would sell for at a PWCC auction..so yeah you can buy away with BINs and avoid being shilled up to amount less than you will pay with BIN

There are also several other sellers that run .99 cent auctions that DO NOT get the PWCC run-up. I know that for a fact - I am one of them.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

There are also several other sellers that run .99 cent auctions that DO NOT get the PWCC run-up. I know that for a fact - I am one of them.

right but you don't sell psa 5.5 green cobbs and psa 7 Aarons 4 or 5 times a year for example..you do see them on BIN, at least the Aarons from time to time..usually asking for more than the final hammer on a PWCC auction... Plus you do consign to PWCC your pricier cards so not sure why are talking down PWCC when you use them yourself like those T206 HOFs you couldn't sell on net54 ..

[bobbyw8469]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

right but you don't sell psa 5.5 green cobbs and psa 7 Aarons 4 or 5 times a year for example..you do see them on BIN, at least the Aarons from time to time..usually asking for more than the final hammer on a PWCC auction... Plus you do consign to PWCC your pricier cards so not sure why are talking down PWCC when you use them yourself like those T206 HOFs you couldn't sell on net54 ..

I'm not talking them down. I like Brent. I think he runs a top notch organization. People are stating facts though. Some of the auction results seem a little odd. Is it a crime to speak the truth? State facts?

[bobbyw8469]

PS - the only reason I consigned the Cy Young to him was to prove to you that I could get more on Ebay than what your lowball offer was. So, YOU were the only reason I sent it to him.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

ps - the only reason i consigned the cy young to him was to prove to you that i could get more on ebay than what your lowball offer was. So, you were the only reason i sent it to him.

LOLOLOL

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

I'm not talking them down. I like Brent. I think he runs a top notch organization. People are stating facts though. Some of the auction results seem a little odd. Is it a crime to speak the truth? State facts?

Facts are real bastards.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

LOL....How about the rare 1968 Roberto Clemente PSA 4? Yea - I never got that either. There are many sellers on Ebay with good cards. Yet don't seem to get the run-up that PWCC does. Not that I'm knocking it. I'm actually rather envious.

Everyone was envious of Mastro too. And many on Net 54 defended them from the pre-investigation stage, through indictment and sentencing. How else do you think fraudsters can be so successful ripping people off so blatantly in this hobby? It's not because the average collector is highly intelligent.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Everyone was envious of Mastro too. And many on Net 54 defended them from the pre-investigation stage, through indictment and sentencing. How else do you think fraudsters can be so successful ripping people off so blatantly in this hobby? It's not because the average collector is highly intelligent.

Everyone was envious of Madoff too. From what I recall there wasn't as much defending of Mastro and gang as there was a call to allow justice to work. That is the same as you defending the people you do. No different.

PS.....I am not defending some bidders and their issues in the current auctions being talked about.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Everyone was envious of Madoff too. From what I recall there wasn't as much defending of Mastro and gang as there was a call to allow justice to work. That is the same as you defending the people you do. No different.

It couldn't be more different, actually, again. My motives in defending people are based on the oath I take to assist people in asserting their constitutional rights. People defended Mastro for many other reasons.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It couldn't be more different, actually, again. My motives in defending people are based on the oath I take to assist people in asserting their constitutional rights. People defended Mastro for many other reasons.

In other words you defend criminals who do bad things in our hobby. I get it, actually we all get it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

It couldn't be more different, actually, again. My motives in defending people are based on the oath I take to assist people in asserting their constitutional rights. People defended Mastro for many other reasons.

And here I thought you only done it for the large amounts of cash they pay you.

With Mastro he seemed to have 2 types of friends. The ones he completely screwed over and the ones that got the spoils from his costumers that he screwed over. From reading all the threads on here about the huge scam he run for many years there where both those types of friends on this forum and unfortunately a few customers.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Again, you skirt my comment. But you can continue saying people defended Mastro all you want to, it won't change what the reality was.

Reality, not revisionist history:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=81430&page=2

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=mastro

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=208076

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Reality, not revisionist history:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=81430&page=2

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=mastro

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=208076

First of all don't give me the crap about constitutional rights. Every person has a right to a lawyer in court. Secondly, you can throw out all of those threads and I am not going to read them. You show me specifically where I said any of those guys didn't do anything wrong and I will say I was wrong (something you don't even know how to do let alone do)

[Leon]

And why is it you have so many hobby'ists as customers, Mr. Criminal Defense Attorney? Seems a bit odd to go after some of the same people you take money from...or maybe you go after others to divert attention from your card doctor clients?

Originally Posted by calvindog

Reality, not revisionist history:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...t=81430&page=2

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=mastro

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=208076

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Leon

Secondly, you can throw out all of those threads and I am not going to read them.

I wouldn't want to read those threads either if I were you.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Leon

And why is it you have so many hobby'ists as customers, Mr. Criminal Defense Attorney? Seems a bit odd to go after some of the same people you take money from...or maybe you go after others to divert attention from your card doctor clients?

Waiting for these answers Jeff....they aren't going away either.

Here is you diverting attention from one of your clients who has allegedly made falsely stamped cards.
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=208345


.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I wouldn't want to read those threads either if I were you.

I went back and read some of those posts just for kicks. You are right and I was wrong. Before any indictments I was defending them but never did I say they absolutely did nothing wrong. As far as I know, at the time, no one knew for sure. I wanted the justice system to play out and it did. They are being punished for their crimes. That is a good thing. That is how we learn.
I was hoping for the best for them and it turned out they were liars and thieves. I had considered them hobby friends.....what more can I say?

Now back to those nagging little questions I had.....