T206 Mullaney Dissected

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Sean

...And also, what is a GIF?

GIF stands for Graphics Interchange Format; it's an animation file format that stores multiple still images (frames) and a frame rate.

[Sean]

Daryl, thank you. I won't pretend to understand everything you said, but I get the idea.

[barrysloate]

Originally Posted by Sean

Daryl, thank you. I won't pretend to understand everything you said, but I get the idea.

It has something to do with computers!

[mrvster]

If you could pick one of the 8 errors on the back only, what would you take?????

me

# 1- the Young ghost

#2- brown om

[atx840]

Those two Johnny,

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mrvster

If you could pick one of the 8 errors on the back only, what would you take?????

me

# 1- the Young ghost

#2- brown om

The Brown OM.
I've always wanted one.

[MuddyMules]

I worked for an offset printing company for many years and believe that the back of the card was part of a full sheet that was used for Make-Ready purposes for the printing press. The pressman would get the press setup and run several sheets of paper through the press to prepare the press for the actual product. http://graphicdesign.about.com/od/pr...make_ready.htm

Seeing how there are several different images on the back of this card, this sheet was "recycled" and used several times, rather than using all new paper for the make-ready process (no reason to use new paper when you can just reuse the scrap). There would have been more than one sheet used for this process and this one must have gotten mixed in with the actual press sheets or could have been used as a cover sheet for the cutters while trimming. Seeing how the front of the card looks to have a good appearance, my guess is that this make-ready sheet was accidentally mixed into the good cards. Most of the cards were probably caught by a packaging employee and this one slipped through somehow.

I would be curious to know what "other" products were printed at the same time as these cards, at the same company, using the same printing press or a sister printing press that could have possibly shared the same make-ready sheets. If we knew of other items that were printed at the same time, there could possibly be this same type of "error" on other products.

Just my thoughts.............

Also, the front side of this card appears to have some additional "yellow ink" on the lower left side, under the players foot. Does it appear to be that way through a loupe? Is this yellow ink a solid or does it have half-tone dots? I'm just curios if the front of the sheet was used as a make-ready for something other than a ball card.

[MuddyMules]

Just like this card was obviously used as a Make-Ready sheet for a different printed product:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/370468796497...84.m1423.l2649

[atx840]

Great post Ted. There are a few other product/jobs/advert test runs using leftoverT206 sheets. Maybe these T206s were tested on these discarded sheets.

[MuddyMules]

Thanks Chris. The sheets were definitely used for make-ready on other products. I wonder if there are other products that were printed that have a "baseball" error on it, but a different collector of a different product does not know what it is. It is very obvious that the Bitters product was printed at the same time, at the same factory and possibly on the same printing press.

[mrvster]

Welcome!! another print expert!....I collect these scrap to abandon....your theory, id say is almost 100 percent correct, except these were smuggled home, as they weren't inserted into the actual product(hence their handcut)....


we really welcome printers opinions....these scraps have become highly coveted, and EXTREMELY unique and alternative T206 rarity collecting...


Peace


johnny

[Leon]

Here is a large pic of the front. I just hope that if anything else is found, Johnny (Hi Johnny) doesn't jump the tracks. Very large scan on purpose....

[E93]

Originally Posted by Sean

Chris did a great job separating those backs. Does anyone have a guess how that back was printed? Did it start out as an Old Mill scrap, and then it was used by the printers to line up the other backs and fronts?

That would be my guess since it is a brown Old Mill and all brown Old Mills were hand cut/probably scrap.
JimB

[MuddyMules]

Thanks for the large scan Leon.

The yellow below his foot and the yellow that is shown on the white border is obviously something different. With the yellow dots on the right border having a straight edge on the left side, this has to be another product. This card (make-ready sheet) appears to have run through a yellow plate alone, prior to printing the four colors for the actual card. What they could be is beyond me and will be very difficult to tell.

If you could place the card on a light table, looking through a loupe and trace out the yellow areas on a separate piece of paper, that might help see what it looks like.

[Leon]

Hey Ted
Thanks again for all of the input. I don't see me going too much further with it. Suffice it to say the back has been pretty well figured out. The front blotches will remain a mystery but I do appreciate the hypothesis set forth ......

And to answer one of the questions as to which is your favorite part of the back, I will go with the Young, then the double EPDG...I have never really been a brown OM fan.....

[MuddyMules]

Thanks Johnny.

I'm not real sure about the hand cutting of the cards, since these would have been in stacks of sheets and possibly cut using this type of antique paper cutter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzONshsEiTE

When I worked in offset sheetfed printing the cutters were like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm_2Cmb9iPk Large stacks of printed sheets being cut to remove the bleeds and make the white borders. The computerized machines would keep the miscuts to a minimal, while the old machines would allow for "out of center" cuts.

(edit) and please don't feel that I don't think that some were hand cut. I am sure that happened, since I did the same thing myself! I do also believe that the rarity of these cards will become highly coveted. These cards are the very first printed and almost all would have been destroyed by the printer. Good luck with these cards, they are very unique in my opinion. Being a former printer, I have a love for misprints and printing errors.

[mrvster]

you just became my new friend

Great choice Leon....that was mine also

[steve B]

Originally Posted by MuddyMules

Thanks Johnny.

I'm not real sure about the hand cutting of the cards, since these would have been in stacks of sheets and possibly cut using this type of antique paper cutter. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzONshsEiTE

When I worked in offset sheetfed printing the cutters were like this one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm_2Cmb9iPk Large stacks of printed sheets being cut to remove the bleeds and make the white borders. The computerized machines would keep the miscuts to a minimal, while the old machines would allow for "out of center" cuts.

(edit) and please don't feel that I don't think that some were hand cut. I am sure that happened, since I did the same thing myself! I do also believe that the rarity of these cards will become highly coveted. These cards are the very first printed and almost all would have been destroyed by the printer. Good luck with these cards, they are very unique in my opinion. Being a former printer, I have a love for misprints and printing errors.

That new cutter is really nice. The older ones were similar, but without the side tables. And our pusher blocks were just chunks of 2x4.

The cutters were pretty much the only machine they didn't let me run.

Nice to see another printing guy, especially one with a lot more years in than I have.

Steve B

[teetwoohsix]

This is an awesome thread!!

Great work Chris, it is amazing what you can do with your computer.

This card is one of my all time favorite T206's, and has been since the first time I saw it. It is thrilling to see it separated like that. After a Wagner, I would take this card over any other T206 out there (if I were a millionaire and Leon was selling it ). This card is a gem and truly unique, and while it's true that any card is only worth what someone will pay for it, I think this card is worth six figures (just my opinion ).

Sincerely, Clayton

[danmckee]

Amazing work Chris!

[mrvster]

Old El Principe De Piedmont

[mrvster]

is there any way to tell which was applied first??? did it start out as the brown om sheet??? or of course bb first, but what was it after...the young ghost??.. piedmont 350 or brown om or ghost??? epdg is not possible(except for this beauty)......what was struck first.....???

[steve B]

In hand it might be possible to tell the order of the layers. Probably not all, but a few should be possible.

It's really difficult from a scan.

My best guess from the closeup scans
brown OM
Young - brown and yellow
Mullin
Both Epdg
Piedmont



Steve B

[mrvster]

what a sheet this must have been.....where are the rest????

imagine finding a few sister cards??