Lelands Lot #153 Heads Up.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I wonder if Leland's is the owner of this item. They sure went out of their way to hide the full work that was done on it.

Jeff, funny you say that you're not the first person to think that...in fact I have had a few hobby folks PM me with the same thoughts....

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Jeff, funny you say that you're not the first person to think that...in fact I have had a few hobby folks PM me with the same thoughts....

Well, I'm assuming that when Josh's dog commits frauds he likes to get as much bang for the buck as possible.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Well, I'm assuming that when Josh's dog commits frauds he likes to get as much bang for the buck as possible.

How does his bark compare with his bite?

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How does his bark compare with his bite?

Not sure, but he apparently is the only dog with opposable thumbs -- makes it easier to punch in those shill bids.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Not sure, but he apparently is the only dog with opposable thumbs -- makes it easier to punch in those shill bids.

Some day we got to grab dinner and drinks Jeff when I'm NYC, not only would it be good to catch up...but I got to hear this dog story sounds like a classic.

I swear these AH's should be accompanied by 80’s TV laugh tracks and groans….

”This week on an all new That’s My Auction House, Skipper gets into big trouble as he enters bids he can’t pay for! Don’t miss this one it’s sure to be hoot. Right after an all new Alf”

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Some day we got to grab dinner and drinks Jeff when I'm NYC, not only would it be good to catch up...but I got to hear this dog story sounds like a classic.

I swear these AH's should be accompanied by 80’s TV laugh tracks and groans….

”This week on an all new That’s My Auction House, Skipper gets into big trouble as he enters bids he can’t pay for! Don’t miss this one it’s sure to be hoot. Right after an all new Alf”

John, for sure. I'm also going to send over an email with some funny stuff about Leland's. Did you ever hear about the infamous letter sent out by a former Leland's employee which laid out in tremendous detail some of the fraud committed by Josh and his gang?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

John, for sure. I'm also going to send over an email with some funny stuff about Leland's. Did you ever hear about the infamous letter sent out by a former Leland's employee which laid our in tremendous detail some of the fraud committed by Josh and his gang?

No but that would be a good read. Thanks Jeff, I feel bad now I didn't get you anything for the Holidays.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

John, for sure. I'm also going to send over an email with some funny stuff about Leland's. Did you ever hear about the infamous letter sent out by a former Leland's employee which laid our in tremendous detail some of the fraud committed by Josh and his gang?

Can't trust disgruntled former employees, you know that.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Can't trust disgruntled former employees, you know that.

Why did the dog and Josh have a falling out?

[jerrys]

Restoration of collectable US currency is also acceptable. The grading service gives a short description of the repair and uses the word Apparent under the condition grade. Opening bid on the $5 is $600 and the $10 is $2400.

lfSR04X0K2-600.jpg

lf3D49QFIO-2400.jpg

[ZachS]

What if one of those bills had "Apparent: 1/4 of this bill was torn off; replaced"?

[drcy]

A funny thing is even if the extensive restoration of the poster was disclosed, you think it would still get lots of bids as it's clearly a nice looking item.

[wonkaticket]

Josh, this is it? No before pictures, no link to GCC's website for before and after?

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...rtising-Poster

To say the work is virtually undetectable is a stretch also come on man, what gives? Why does everything have to be so freaking difficult?

It’s really simple this is a heavily damaged genuine G20 banner that has been professionally restored by one of the best restoration companies in the world to look as original as possible.

It serves a great value to the collector as it looks NRMT and can be had for a fraction of the price when compared to an unrestored NRMT copy. Which may not be found as the nicest examples are currently tied up in private collections. So with only 6-7 of these around this may be your one chance etc.

It is what it is why not let it sell as such, why walk a fine line of just enough info?

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Josh, this is it? No before pictures, no link to GCC's website for before and after?

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...rtising-Poster

Seriously...that's ridiculous IMO not to include the before picture of this item.

[E93]

Pathetic! I guess this is one more auction house I cannot trust. It is amazing to me that somebody who has been in the hobby as long as Josh Evans just does not get it.
JimB

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by E93

Pathetic! I guess this is one more auction house I cannot trust.
JimB

Sad isn't it Jim. Greed has reared it's ugly head yet again.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Sad isn't it Jim. Greed has reared it's ugly head yet again.

You've got a guy in Josh who signed his dog up to shill bid unsuspecting customers of Leland's Auctions and we're surprised that he's still trying to steal a few more dollars with his bullshit 'update' on a massively restored poster?

[Eric72]

For the auction house to initially try passing this off as unaltered is an example of everything wrong with our hobby. Additionally, they are still contending that the, "poster is in NRMT condition." It is utterly shameful to call this anything other than Authentic...and even that is a major stretch.

If informed that the piece had undergone a major restoration, which definitely seems to be the case here, they clearly had a duty to disclose same. Had the information provided to them gone unnoticed and they were also too inexperienced to spot this independently, they have no business handling the piece in question.

On the flip side...in my humble opinion, the restoration job is tremendous. Had it been fully disclosed from the beginning, the impressive work done to the poster would have likely driven bids higher. Now that this piece has an aura of deceit hanging over it, I can't help but to think the hammer price (for this auction, anyway) will suffer.

Wonka (along with many others in the Net54 community) has done an exemplary job at shining the light of truth onto a shadowy corner of our hobby, which continues to be fraught with peril. I am grateful to him...and all of you...for sharing your knowledge and experience.

Best regards,

Eric

[CW]

Now that Leland's has the knowledge gained from the "before" pictures supplied by John, I think it would be safe to remove this line from the description....

"There is some chipping at the upper edges, and some residue on the reverse, meaning the poster may have been mounted at one time."



Also, not to pile on, and maybe it's just semantics, but I also would also disagree with their assessment that "the restoration work is virtually undetectable" when it's clearly visible when looking at the photo...

[Rob D.]

"And Josh has agreed to take questions after he's finished with his speech."

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You've got a guy in Josh who signed his dog up to shill bid unsuspecting customers of Leland's Auctions and we're surprised that he's still trying to steal a few more dollars with his bullshit 'update' on a massively restored poster?

Perhaps the dog is the consignor and wants to realize the highest possible price consistent with avoiding a potential fraud claim, rather than making the fullest possible disclosure?

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

"And Josh has agreed to take questions after he's finished with his speech."

Was this the Q&A session after dinner where a certain auction executive talked about fraud and unsavory actions by Mastro as part of the entertainment? I was told about that sorry I missed it.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Was this the Q&A session after dinner where a certain auction executive talked about fraud and unsavory actions by Mastro as part of the entertainment? I was told about that sorry I missed it.

Please tell me that wasn't Josh.

[ullmandds]

No...it wasnt

[Rob D.]

I thought Josh was a scheduled speaker one year but had to cancel. My post was wishful thinking for an intro at the 2014 dinner.

[ullmandds]

josh spoke at the 13' dinner.

[wonkaticket]

There you have it......images have been added, thank you Josh.

If it was me I would also include a link to GCC. That's a selling feature IMO I can assure you the work that was done didn't come cheap.

Cheers,

John

[Ease]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

josh spoke at the 13' dinner.

Very entertaining too I might add. He had some cool stories. The Charlie Sheen stuff was great.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

There you have it......images have been added, thank you Josh.

If it was me I would also include a link to GCC. That's a selling feature IMO I can assure you the work that was done didn't come cheap.

Cheers,

John

Kicking and screaming he had to be dragged to do the right thing -- not because he wanted to but because he was tired of being exposed as a fraud.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Kicking and screaming he had to be dragged to do the right thing -- not because he wanted to but because he was tired of being exposed as a fraud.

Jeff, sadly I would have to agree. Not sure why it had to be so difficult?

Just think after my call last week, they throw up the pics and links. No public forum posts, no outrage or confused customers just the right thing and honestly would have made them look pretty solid at least to me.

Oh well….

[Pythonfactory]

Although it has already been said multiple times, thanks for exposing this John. I've just added Lelands to my "Do Not Buy From" list.

And I think you'll be happy to know that if you Google "Lelands auctions fraud" this comes up near the top of the results. Hopefully a few future consignors who were considering using Lelands land on this thread and take their business elsewhere.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by calvindog

You've got a guy in Josh who signed his dog up to shill bid unsuspecting customers of Leland's Auctions and we're surprised that he's still trying to steal a few more dollars with his bullshit 'update' on a massively restored poster?

I don't see how you can prove his dog was shill bidding, I think he really wanted this item:

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/Aucti...ies-Dog-Collar

[wonkaticket]

Just saw this image from one of our member’s websites thought it was rather funny. As well as a little more salt in the wound. Here is the placard from the National. Love the last line.



Add this in with the reluctance to add images and new description until after I had to publicly post here, then the continued stretch of saying the restoration is “almost undetectable” which of course is a joke. I really am beginning to think Leland’s is the owner of this item.

Otherwise why go to these the lengths to cover a consignor, and a consignor who is no longer with us to boot. Unless Josh says otherwise I’m inclined to think they are the owner as mentioned in this thread.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Well if only a handful are known it is by definition one of the finest specimens extant, no?

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well if only a handful are known it is by definition one of the finest specimens extant, no?

[calvindog]

Just checking the Leland's auction ending tomorrow -- noticed a full Led Zeppelin ticket from a show on August 23, 1970. The Leland's catalog describes the show as follows:

"One of the greatest rock and roll bands ever to hit the stage, Led Zeppelin played a 10-song set at San Antonio's Hemis-Fair Arena on August 23, 1970 beginning with their hard-charging rocker "Immigrant Song."

A simple google search reveals that the show was "cancelled due to health concerns, because of an outbreak of children's diphtheria in San Antonio." -- Led Zeppelin official website. On the Led Zep website there are also reproduced newspaper articles noting the cancellation of the show.

[4815162342]

Hilarious! The research apparently stopped at the first Google search result.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by 4815162342

Hilarious! The research apparently stopped at the first Google search result.

Actually even that first entry notes that the set list was a "possible" set list.

[wonkaticket]

Jeff, don't let a little things like details & facts get you bogged down just enjoy the auction...I know Josh doesn't let it effect his enjoyment of his auctions.

[oldjudge]

Way to go Jeff and John! Just when you think you have seen everything.......

[ctownboy]

Even when they are wrong
auction descriptions just Ramble On.

David

[scooter729]

I had been interested initially in this Red Sox print when I saw it the other day, but noticed the two small words at the end of the long description which stated "repaired tears".

I immediately flashed back to this thread and pictured what the "repaired tears" might mean, and held back on my bid.

Thanks again to all for informing the rest of us when you know about things like this - it is very educational and can save us some headaches down the road!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by scooter729

I had been interested initially in this Red Sox print when I saw it the other day, but noticed the two small words at the end of the long description which stated "repaired tears".

I immediately flashed back to this thread and pictured what the "repaired tears" might mean, and held back on my bid.

Thanks again to all for informing the rest of us when you know about things like this - it is very educational and can save us some headaches down the road!

Leland's is an advertiser here so please keep that in mind. It doesn't change my view but it needs to be said.
There is no doubt a couple mistakes were made in the auction. That being said, if I wanted something that said it had been repaired, I would place a call and get more explanation if i had a concern. That is a beautiful poster. I don't think I have ever seen it before. I could maybe see me replacing my Horner Composite with it, and putting the rest of the money in the bank. It's really nice.

Also, I have known Josh and Mike for many years. I consider them good guys and hobby friends. I think the poster was an oversight and one that got egg on their face. But that being said I trust Leland's and think they are a good company and one I will continue to do business with. Just as I would do with anything and any company, if I am buying something that has been repaired, I will always follow up and ask about it, just as I did the Horner Composite hanging on my wall.

I am looking forward to their auction ending to see where some things go. Hopefully, if there is anything I can't live without, I will come away with it....It will be interesting to see if the Wagner card gets more bids too.....

[calvindog]

Leon, Josh has engaged in shill bidding in his auctions. Just ask him.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Leon, Josh has engaged in shill bidding in his auctions. Just ask him.

I did. He said he didn't.

[scooter729]

Originally Posted by Leon

That being said, if I wanted something that said it had been repaired, I would place a call and get more explanation if i had a concern.

Thanks Leon - I just wanted to add that I took your advice and gave them a call to get more details as to the extent of the repaired tears. It certainly had a bit of work, but not a full restoration like the A&G poster at all, so it is a nice piece.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by Leon

That being said, if I wanted something that said it had been repaired, I would place a call and get more explanation if i had a concern.

If they can rave about how great the item is and post a nice size image of it, then a detailed description(as well as before photos) about the repair work should be given as well. A potential buyer shouldn't have to call about this.

To me it's obvious why they left this out, they thought it would hurt the final price.

It's just not that hard to be honest.

[sportsnbikes]

Very informative post. Bidding is still close to 16,000. WOW!

[wonkaticket]

“Leland's is an advertiser here so please keep that in mind. It doesn't change my view but it needs to be said.”

Why should that matter or need to be said? Other than political on your end it shouldn’t concern the rest of us Leon IMO.

“I think the poster was an oversight and one that got egg on their face.”

Simply not true (minus the egg and face) this thread as well as their responses are conformation that it wasn’t a simple oversight. Let’s lay out the cliff notes for the folks who aren’t going to read this entire thread.

1. I notice the item for sale and realize that it was the item that Broadway Rick’s Strikezone/Rick Kohl was selling on eBay.
   
   
2. I knew firsthand the history of this poster and the level of damage prior to restoration as did several respected hobby players.
   
   
3. I notified Leland’s offline and privately and provided them with images and detailed insight. Not only was their employee shocked but he agreed with me that it was well more than simple restoration. He even asked how the auction description should be changed to better describe the item with the new information he had received. I explained his response was thank you very much for the heads up let me get with Josh.
   
   
4. Days later I noticed nothing had changed, re-emailed the employee and copied Josh. The response I got was a one sentence response. “It is clearly written in the description regarding restoration” I emailed back Josh and said I politely disagree that the current description accurately described this item.
   
   
5. I then decided to try and warn folks via the boards. With the exact same information I provided Leland’s.
   
   
6. Then after Leland’s took a few lumps on the public boards Josh said he didn’t notice how bad the images were on his phone and until he saw it on here he hadn’t realized how bad. This was a scramble to fix a sinking ship. He had the same images in full resolution days before from his employee etc. when I pointed this out he said he just looked at them quickly missed them and was and I quote “kind of annoyed” whatever that means.
   
   
7. After all this dancing they finally include the new description saying “The poster has had major restoration. However, the appearance is magnificent and the work virtually undetectable.” But no before photos. Also the undetectable line is a joke Stevie Wonder could see where this item has been fixed. Heck you can even see the before and after photos proudly displayed by the company that did the restoration…yet somehow were missed by Leland’s….
   
   
8. Then we are back to the boards to say what gives? Then only after this photos are added.
   

From day one at the National they have marked this item as one of the finest in existence. They then took this marketing to web and print with a minor foot note of restoration. When notified of the extent of the restoration they dodged and only after a very public flogging they did the right thing.

Bottom line this is what they tried to market.





And this is what the item really is…..in this case a picture really is worth a thousand words.




What really ticks me off is as a collector with no real vested interest I took my time and did the right thing. I notified them offline to allow them to save face fix the bugs and move on. Allowing them to protect themselves as well as their bidders/customers. However that wasn’t enough I had to go on public boards light up a signal flare point fingers and act like a dick to just to have the right thing done and even then it was a freakin chore.

John

[Cardboard Junkie]

John, you are not a dick. Josh is a dick......and others in this thread are getting close.