Who is the greatest BB player you ever SAW?

[Writehooks]

Catfish Hunter in his last two seasons with the A's. Absolute master of control.

[old-baseball]

To me it has to come down to Hank Aaron. Take away every single one of his 755 home runs and what do you have? Answer - 3,016 hits. Still enough to get you into the HOF.

I'm surprised that no one ever makes a case for Rod Carew. The guy was an absolute hitting machine. Fifteen straight years with an average over .300 and seven AL batting titles in a ten year period.

[quinnsryche]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Steroid allegations aside. Strictly from a practical standpoint it's hard to argue against Barry Bonds.

His On Base %'s are nearly Ruthian, and in the modern game unheard of.

I don't think he ever saw a decent pitch to hit the last 5-7 years of his career, and still put up the ridiculous stats he did.

Only guy I ever saw intentionally walked with the bases loaded.

Not to mention the stolen bases and the Golden Gloves from the first half of his career.

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

[Robextend]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Sadly, Bonds was on his way to a HOF career without steroids.

Sosa def wasn't.

[ethicsprof]

hank aaron, hands-down.

taught his daughter 30 years ago.

quite the gentleman; quite the lady.

best,
barry

[philliesphan]

Mike Schmidt, no question

[AndrewJerome]

1987 is about the earliest I can remember watching games. Living in WA this is an easy choice for me--Ken Griffey Jr.

What couldn't he do on a baseball field in his prime?

Andrew

[ElCabron]

I agree with Jay on Nolan Ryan being overrated. Best I ever saw in person:

Hitter: Barry Bonds
All-around 5-tool player: Larry Walker (believe it or not)
Pitcher: Pedro in his prime or Hershiser in 1988
Honorable mention: 1980s Don Mattingly

-Ryan

[base_ball]

Hitter: George Brett
Pitcher: Mariano Rivera

[sox1903wschamp]

George Brett: Lived in KC from 75-92 and he was lights out most notably from 75-80. Killed the Red Sox and many others.

[mr2686]

this was a tough one. I saw Mays, Aaron and Clemente, but all at the ends of their careers...but they were still the best out there so that's kinda scary. I saw some great pure hitters like Brett and Gwynn through their whole career make hitting look easy. I saw Brooks Robinson who in my opinion is the best fielder I ever saw, but If I was to pick one player that I've actually seen in my lifetime as the best player I ever saw I'd have to pick Pujols. He's a monster.

[rdixon1208]

Greg Maddux

[WWGjohn]

Best pitcher I saw was Koufax and the best hitter, Pujols. I saw Musial at the end of his career as well as Brock and Banks, but Albert is awesome.

John

[Exhibitman]

Best I ever saw on TV: Nolan Ryan
Best I ever saw in person: Pete Rose
Honorable Mention: George Brett. Gad, I hated that guy in 1976-81.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by quinnsryche

You can't put the steroid allegations aside. He cheated his way to the top. Was 175 lbs soaking wet (Sosa too) when he started. He's guilty, he's a cheat and every single stat and record he has should be eliminated when he's finally found guilty in court next year. He makes me sick.

Well, the question you posed was "Who is the greatest BB player you ever saw?"

If you phrased it differently I may have answered differently.

I have yet to see any player put the fear into pitchers he did...........steroids or not.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Peter-The idea for a three or four hitter is to drive in runs. Taking your point about walks I looked at a few power hitters to see their ratio of RBIs to ABs. These are the results:

Ruth-.263
Williams-.239
DiMaggio-.225
Pujols-,215
Bonds-.203
Mantle-.186

If not for his injuries he might have been an all time great, maybe the greatest ever, but injuries are part of the game. Because of his knees he was not a base stealiing threat and had to be replaced in the outfield for defensive purposes late in games. Additionally, he finished his career with a sub .300 average (even if he skipped his last year his average would have been barely over .300). Also, he batted in one of the best lineups of his time which provided many more RBI opportunities than available to a normal three or four batter.

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

[albrshbr]

Always loved Tony Gwynn, always put the ball in play

Bonds was just a monster, even pre-steroids

Randy Johnson could dominate a game like no other pitcher I've ever seen

[Touch'EmAll]

The all-time leader in "lowest opponent batting average": #1 Nolan Ryan with .203, then #2 Koufax with .205

Basically, Nolan Ryan was the most difficult pitcher of all time to get a hit against.

Koufax had the advantage of a raised pitching mound - big help. Nolan Ryan came along after they lowered the pitching mound to make it easier for hitters.

How many no-hitters would Ryan have if he played with a higher mound like Koufax? Maybe 10, 11 or more?

The stupid ass Cy Young voters had a bone to pick with Ryan. Case in point: 1973 Ryan broke Koufax' single season K record with 383, had not one, but 2 no-hitters, was around 20 wins for the lowly Angels. And they gave the Cy Young to Palmer. Makes me sick to my stomach. As a kid I was mortified by the voters decision - as an adult, still am mortified. Could you imagine a pitcher with those season credentials not winning the Cy Young.

Yes, there is sometimes corruption in baseball. Yes, there are media darlings, aka Palmer.

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Ryan set strikeout records that will never be approached but I have never heard anyone say he was in the class of Johnson or Matty or even Koufax. So it's hard to say he was overrated.

Ryan's career mark of 2795 walks may actually be his most remarkable career baseball stat. Heck, statistically (at 52% above the runner-up) it may be the most remarkable of all baseball career stats. He was a truly amazing pitcher, but he wouldn't be in my top 50 - maybe not even in my top 100 - of pitchers I might select to pitch a WS game 7 for my team.

I'd say Mays was the best player I ever saw, however I only got to see him towards the end of his career. Rickey Henderson was pretty special, but I never thought he reached his potential. I loved my local favorites Killebrew, Carew and Oliva. Killebrew was the best pure power hitter I ever saw, and Carew the best singles hitter. I thought Oliva was destined to be one of the all-time greats until his unfortunate injury (not to be too macabre, but had he been struck dead by a bus in 1972 instead of playing on a mangled knee for several years thereafter, I think he would have made the Hall long, long ago).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by 100backstroke

Plain & Simple - Nolan Ryan had the best stuff of any pitcher, ever.

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

[Doug]

Assuming the question means "saw in person" I'd have to say Ken Griffey Jr even though he seemed to get hurt nonstop (and steadily decline in production) after he got here.

[mdschulze]

Since I've only been to a handful of games... all Astros... I enjoyed watching Craig Biggio. Scrappy little guy with a big heart and a heavy bat.

[brickyardkennedy]

"Say Hey" Willie. And this is the opinion of a lifelong Brooklyn/LA Dodger fan.

[chris6net]

Pitcher-hands down George Thomas Seaver
Hitter-Henry Aaron
Most dominant for one season would have to be a tie
Ron Guidry in 1977 and Dwight Gooden in 1985. CN

[toppcat]

I agree: Tom Seaver. I was fortunate to have seen him pitch many times at Shea in the 70's. The best hitter I have seen is still playing: Albert Pujols.

[Steve D]

In person - Dave Winfield
On TV - Rickey Henderson

Steve

[camlov2]

Being in my early 30's and not going to many games when I was little I don't have as large of a list to work from as some of you. It took me less then a second to figure out that the only possible answer for me would be Ken Griffey Jr. I was able to watch him during his first spring training when I was just entering my teenage years... I was even able to get an autograph. Hitting, fielding, and the sweetest swing in baseball.

[49leaf]

Bar none the most dominating player i have ever seen is Jose Canseco. Ask any player who was in the league from 87-90 and they will agree. He was a one man wrecking crew , the players had never seen anyone who could hit run and propel his team to win. Do I agree with the roid use, well they were all on it the last 23 years and Jose was the best.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

Valid point. Other than a few years when Mantle has Maris batting behind him, he had no protection in the lineup like others have had. Also if you subtract out Ruth (didn't see), Bonds (steroids), DiMaggio and Williams (never saw in person), that leaves only Pujols ahead of him. I will still take Mickey.

[nodgrass]

Pedro Martinez- for a span of about 5 years he was by far the best player I have seen. ERA's in the high 1's, low 2's during a time when jacked up monsters were hitting 70 home runs.

[tedzan]

I saw Joe DiMaggio play (at Yankee Stadium and on TV) from 1947 - 1951. He was still tremendous
near the end of his career.





TED Z

[Oldtix]

I saw Gibson and Marichal in '68, Gooden in '85 and Ryan in '90, but I think the best true pitcher was Greg Maddux. He won more games with his head than with his arm.

I'd go with George Brett as an everyday hitter/fielder; I rarely saw Willie Mays play but don't doubt his credentials. But without question, the most thrilling thing I ever saw was seeing Mickey Mantle hit a towering 450+ ft. home run over the 40-foot fence in right field at Municipal Stadium in Kansas City in 1966. Forty-four years ago, yet I can still recall every detail of that moment...

[whycough]

Ted Williams, Mickey Mantle, Pedro Martinez. With my own luckey eyes. The rest pale.

[BBSD]

Easy Johnny LeMaster, whoops I mean The Sey Hey kid- Willie Mays.

[Idiottax]

For me, it was Greg Maddux, who I saw pitch against Tom Glavine at Shea Stadium in a game which John Smoltz closed. For a big Braves fan and a big fan of pitchers in general, it was quite the experience.

[BearBailey]

In Person: Hitter Barry Bonds, Pitcher Greg Maddux
On TV: Hitter Pete Rose, Pitcher Greg Maddux

[alanu]

I'll go with:

Aaron
Clemente
Nolan Ryan
Schmidt
Ripken

with the caveat that Clemente and Ripken are my favorite players

[tbob]

I know a lot of posters are in their 20's and 30's and early 40's. Just wondering if that is why so many people are picking Greg Maddux over Koufax, Gibson and Ford.

[howard38]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

By that measure Musial was .170 or thereabouts. I guess he was overrated too? And how great were the hitters ahead of him? Rizzuto? Coleman? McDougald? Richardson? Carey? Kubek? etc. A great overall team yes, but not exactly the Big Red Machine setting the table.

I was going to respond w/a similar post. I would add Billy Martin, Ruben Amaro and Horace Clarke to the "illustrious" list of hitters that set the table for Mantle. It's a wonder that he had as many 100 RBI seasons as he did. Furthermore during the course of his career Mantle himself occasionally batted first or second which further cut into his RBI totals.

[MacDice]

Ken Griffey Jr and Albert Pujols

[dabigyankeeman]

I grew up watching Mantle roam the outfield in Yankee Stadium. Nobody like him when he was healthy.

I remember one game where he hit 3 balls over 440 feet and they were all caught by Albie Pearson for outs!!!

Another time, he hit a monster blast that bounced over the high wall at the 457-foot sign for a ground-rule double. By the time the ball got into the bleachers, Mantle had rounded third base and was headed home, and the umpires made him go back to second.

God, how i loved The Mick.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Jay- how was Nolan Ryan overrated?

Agreed Barry.

I've never seen so many Major Leaguers afraid to face a pitcher. The look of defeat written all over their face BEFORE they stepped into the box!

Also, I saw "the Great One" play a few times at Chavez Ravine, and I can tell you that they gave him that nickname for a reason.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

FWIW Bill James ranks Ryan 24th among pitchers.

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

[dabigyankeeman]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I'm thinking that Bill James must have never seen Ryan pitch in person, especially in the '70's.

Yes, I saw Ryan pitch one his 200+ career 10 or more strikeout games in person, the guy was an animal, just awesome.

[Mark]

Ryan threw hard, but so did Gibson and Seaver. It's the latter two who impressed me by shutting down my Pirates on a regular basis.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ryan's WHIP is not even in the top 250 of all time. You can look it up. He had flaws to go along with the wicked stuff.

[Mikehealer]

I can't imagine anyone that saw both Ryan and Seaver pitch actually believing that Ryan was the better pitcher.

[barrysloate]

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

[Jason Carota]

Pedro Martinez, hands down. His performance during the 1999 season was out of this world.

[Mikehealer]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Tom Seaver was the much better pitcher, and could be the best I ever saw in his prime.

I agree, but it would be a coin flip for me between Seaver and Randy Johnson.
And both of them made road trips.