My thoughts on these stupid grading posts

[Kenny Cole]

OK. Here's my rant. This post will likely get me flamed, but I just don't care. I thought this forum was about CARDS. However, in order to read about cards, I now get to wade through volumes of crap about how so and so was slighted in the grading arena. Post after post.

I don't care. If you decided to submit a card for grading and it didn't get what you wanted, talk to the graders. If you were stupid enough to re-submit multiple cards to a different grader in hopes of a better grade and suffered disappointment, that's on you. Would you be bitching if you got your card bumped up? Don't think so. Don't waste my time talking about how bad the decision you made turned out to be because I don't care.

I have submitted cards to be graded. I have often not agreed with the grade I received. I don't think I have ever once come on this board and cried about it, because that is not, and should not, be what this board is about. IMO, if someone has a problem with SGC or PSA, take it up with them. Don't waste everyone elses' time with a thread that spawns 40+ responses with regard to an issue that is always subjective and can therefore never be resolved.

IMO, this board is, or at least should be, about cards, not grades. It is, or should be, about sharing knowledge and helping folkis out. It is, or should be, about celebrating the fact that the folks here are weird enough to cherish little pieces of cardboard that have an intrinsic value to a small segment of the population.

Its great if you submit a card and it gets an 8, but I could care less if you thought it should get an 8 and it only got a 6. Let's talk about cards, not grades. That's my thought.

[nolemmings]

I'm getting a vibe here. Stop making us read tea leaves, and tell us what you really feel.

[Ease]

+1

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I don't give a rat f***...

My thoughts (almost) exactly.
Doug

[Thrill-of-the-Hunt]

you can't argue with 40+ responses to grading card posts, this is a major part of the hobby. the title in the post stated what the topic was, so you dont have to read it if this subject aggravated you so much.

[Wite3]

What if the title of the post just aggravates me...

Joshua

[Browncow75]

Going back to the "whats hurting the vintage hobby" subject, its posts like those where the focus is put purely on the grade a 3rd party gave it, and not the actual card itself, which is the real thing we should worry about. If you are that upset with a TPG, why not crack out all your cards and just enjoy them as they are? Bitching about it sure isnt going to change the grade! We all know the risks we take when we send them in!

[Kenny Cole]

Yeah, I really can argue with 40+ posts about grading. Perhaps I was unclear to you, but that isn't what I think this forum should be about. I sort of thougt that was clear, but if you remain uncertain about what I think, just let me know. If you can't figure it out, I will do my best to enlighten you. :-)

[FUBAR]

while i do agree with you about the grading posts, you have every right to vent, but show a little restraint and save the f-bombs for someplace else.

[ErikV]

Thought I was alone on this, but Kenny and Brandon hit the nail on the head. Glad I'm not the only one who thought this way!!!

ErikV

[Kawika]

[FUBAR]

now that was funny

[teetwoohsix]

Exergonic

[barrysloate]

Kenny- In one of the threads about PSA I started what I hoped was a lively conversation about how the whole system of grading could be improved. Did you feel that was a waste of time, or a fair discussion? You can answer either way, I won't be offended.

[kkkkandp]

Since my main focus is on Old Judge cards (where getting a grade above GOOD is a monumental accomplishment 90% of the time), my reply may not translate as well to other issues, but I think it is generally true.

I said this just the other day to someone - because there does tend to be so much criticism of the service they provide, the card grading industry should consider remarketing itself. Perhaps they should establish a set of realistic and practical universal standards, but I'll say later why even that won't help.

First and foremost, these things we collect are picture cards. To not take the picture quality into consideration in the grade is ludicrous. We have all seen Old Judge cards where the image looks as if it was taken in a London fog, but the card has graded EXCELLENT. Sorry, that's just wrong.

The back is pristinely clean. So what? It's blank. Other issues do have writing on the reverse, some more important (statistics, in my opinion) than others. Back and variation collectors will likely disagree, but I buy the card pretty much for the picture alone.

But cards are graded on technicalities. Expanding the "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" concept to that grading work is exactly why card grading will continue to be received with derision. Even with universal standards, will every grader see the same corner rounding or the same dirt smudges in the same way?

I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;
(2) Providing a holder that enhanced the presentation and protected the card.

After that, I'll decide how perfectly beautiful it is.

[Orioles1954]

Clean up your language. Believe it or not, we do have kids on this board. And even if we didn't, your wanton use of profanity makes your point that much less valid.

[FrankWakefield]

Amen to curtailing the profanity. The Ichiro link should be removed, funny to me though it is; and the other posts edited to be cleaned up a bit.

"These forums are devoted to both Pre- and Post- war baseball cards and vintage memorabilia, as well as other sports. "

That's what it says up there... devoted to cards, not slabs. I thought the slab companies had boards for the slab stuff. So I agree with the idea of fewer posts about registries, cross-overs, and particular grading issues. I can see how once in a while a thread about such would be justified. For me, I'd rather see Leon's quarter than see another post about graded cards. I've had some cards graded so they'd sell better, when I'm selling I'm after money... I've cracked out most of the graded cards I've bought, I hate the slabs, they take up lots of storage space. I have a few graded cards I've not cracked out, my favorite is one I've left because the card is mis-identified. Not that that is a rarity among graded cards, but I just like seeing how SGC got it wrong and any collector with part of a brain can see that they did. Joe P is smiling

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Clean up your language. Believe it or not, we do have kids on this board. And even if we didn't, your wanton use of profanity makes your point that much less valid.

I have to walk my little girl out to the bus in about one minute, and then go to a meeting, but will post more on this subject later this morning. I can't allow F-bombs and have edited those out. WE do have children that get on the board. I left the one youtube video as you can barely understand what the gentleman said but I was a hair away from deleting it too, and still might. Be careful with the language please.....more later....regards

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Clean up your language. Believe it or not, we do have kids on this board. And even if we didn't, your wanton use of profanity makes your point that much less valid.

Originally Posted by Leon

I have to walk my little girl out to the bus in about one minute, and then go to a meeting, but will post more on this subject later this morning. I can't allow F-bombs and have edited those out. WE do have children that get on the board. I left the one youtube video as you can barely understand what the gentleman said but I was a hair away from deleting it too, and still might. Be careful with the language please.....more later....regards

Thank you gentlemen.

[GrayGhost]

Honestly, the grading stuff is a bit much. Simply, you send it in for grading, and thats how it comes out. There's always a risk with anything. I'd say do the research on which company you want, and just go with it. if you are going to crack all those out and have the funds to blow on grading w another company, however it comes out is your luck.

[Kawika]

Originally Posted by Leon

I have to walk my little girl out to the bus in about one minute, and then go to a meeting, but will post more on this subject later this morning. I can't allow F-bombs and have edited those out. WE do have children that get on the board. I left the one youtube video as you can barely understand what the gentleman said but I was a hair away from deleting it too, and still might. Be careful with the language please.....more later....regards

On account that women and children read this board and in deference to the one or two gentlemen who also participate, the offending Ichiro YouTube video has been removed.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Kawika

On account that women and children read this board and in deference to the one or two gentlemen who also participate, the offending Ichiro YouTube video has been removed.

Thanks David. When I think about profanity on the board I truly use my 13 yr old little girl as my reference. I don't like her to be around F bombs and really harsh language but a few minor 4 letter words, sh**, da**, hell etc....aren't that big of a deal. The other day I totally blew it and slipped up and said an F bomb in front of her. She went straight to mom and told her what I said. I am still hearing about it. After that I am trying to curb my F-bomb usage in daily life, even if it is just under my breath. So, I ask all board members, before you post something, think about if it is ok for your, or someone elses, 13yr old to hear. If it is, then go for it...if not, then don't do it. And if you make an error in judgment then I will fix it . This forum is about PG rated imho.....I try to be respectful of the women and children who might read it, even though they are probably few and far between, I know there are some. regards (and thanks again, David)

[Kenny Cole]

Barry,

I am very conflicted about grading. My core being loathes it and I detest what it has done to the hobby. The myriad of recent posts about how people have been screwed on grades that they evidently thought they were entitled to exemplifies, at least in part, why. That being said, I have finally given in and now use it on some of my cards. I suppose what I should now do is go into a dissertation about every single perceived injustice that I have received at the hands of the people to whom I paid money to impartially grade my cards. Based on some of the responses to this thread, it seems as if that's what this board is now about.

I acknowledge that grading in some form or fashion is here to stay. I don't like it, but that's a fact. Do I think that it can be improved? Certainly, perhaps along the lines that Joann alluded to earlier. However, we aren't there yet. Instead, what we have had recently is thread after thread about how submitter X had some really great cards with really great grades, gambled on getting even better grades, lost the bet, and now wants to blame the grader.

Spare me. If you go to Vegas and put your money on black, you really don't have much room to bitch if the ball lands on red. When you send your cards in to be graded in hopes of making money, you are simply playing a different form of roulette. If you win, great. If you lose, don't whine. I don't care either way. They will be the same piece of cardboard after being graded that they were before, regardless of the number given.

[barrysloate]

Thanks Kenny for your response. I'm pretty much in your school. I do believe there are good things that have come out of TPG, but also many things I don't like. Nothing bothers me more than those silly and somewhat meaningless numbers, but I respect that many other collectors will disagree with me. I also feel that we have too many posts about bad personal experiences with submissions. Bill has every right to be mad about his experience, likewise Dan. But everyone who resubmits does so at great risk and that should be perfectly clear going in. So I don't know how many more threads we really need on this topic. Yes, I would be angry if it happened to me, but I wouldn't feel compelled to post it here.

[Bicem]

If collectors would just treat grades as more of a guide and/or a simple opinion instead of as the word of god, we'd be much better off in my opinion.

I like grading just to ensure authenticity and to have a cool looking, protective holder. I do not like the huge price discrepancies between grades. Also, the exact same card in a 5 holder is worth more than it is in a 4 holder really seems odd to me, it’s the same card!

I think as collectors become more experienced and knowledgeable about cards and the hobby itself, the importance they place on technical grades decreases. At least that's how it was for me.

[forazzurri2axz]

First of all, if you don't like the topic of card grading, and one's disappointment with certain results, then you sure as heck spent an awful lot of time reading about it since between the 2 threads, there were almost 300 replies..As someone pointed out, if it pisses you off so much, DON'T READ THEM!!!!

Secondly, not everyone agrees with your definition of what this board is or should be about. Grading is a MAJOR part of the hobby and obviously elicits a lot of different opinions within our baseball card community. If Leon chose to limit the topics to only those that YOU felt were relevant, there would probably be a lot less participants (and lurkers)

If Leon (allow me the liberty please Leon!!) posted a thread and mentioned that 30 of his fairly valuable PSA 2's had been submitted to SGC as a crossover with a request to just meet the SAME grade of SGC30/2, and 15 were crossed--the BEST and "STRONGEST" 2's, and then Leon re-submitted these back to PSA asking for the same PSA 2 grade , and PSA rejects half of their own originally graded PSA 2's including now declaring one trimmed, I doubt you would have even posted, rat f___ or no rat f___.

This had nothing to do with a card getting an 8 or a 6--It had to do with PSA rejecting the BEST of a group they had just graded themselves when asked for the SAME grade they had declared themselves.

cheers to all

bill