How to put the Forgers Out of Business Quickly

[drc]

I recommend either Ned or Ebeneezer. Ebby for short is fine.

[JimStinson]

Jim---- I agree with you

Secondly, I agree with everything you said except the outcome. The main problem with these forgeries is that they have been more or less forced underground. Out of the major auction houses and dealers (and to some extent eBay) and into a nebulous secondary market. Craigslist, small local auctions, flea markets, Amazon, anywhere buyer meets seller. The target is now unsophisticated impulse buyers, and/or resellers. The motivation being the "deal" or easy profit.

and thats exactly my point, that "secondary market" will be the outlets that have been in business 6 months or fit the catagory of "Autograph sellers no one has ever heard of" They may be well intentioned but uniformed. If they are unable to sell their product whatever it is then they stop buying. The "impulse buyer" non collector will likely never come into contact with any of us in the hobby anyway and in my opinion there are not enough of them to sustain a profitable business as they might only buy one autograph in their lives

[JimStinson]

Also agree with you that there are WAY too many people named Jim in this world

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

The "impulse buyer" non collector will likely never come into contact with any of us in the hobby anyway and in my opinion there are not enough of them to sustain a profitable business as they might only buy one autograph in their lives

Nedster,
While they may not come in contact with 'hobby people', they will most certainly come in contact with the the scammers or their residue. And there are exponentially more of 'them' (impulse / uninformed resellers) than 'us'. More than enough to keep a multitude of unethical dregs afloat for a long time.
Scooter

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Nedster,
While they may not come in contact with 'hobby people', they will most certainly come in contact with the the scammers or their residue. And there are exponentially more of 'them' (impulse / uninformed resellers) than 'us'. More than enough to keep a multitude of unethical dregs afloat for a long time.
Scooter

Ebby,
I strongly suspect that there are far less of "Them" than of "Us" but I could be wrong as those were the exact same words George Armstrong Custer said right before he rode over the "ridge" at the Little Big Horn.
Ned

[earlywynnfan]

Originally Posted by Deertick

Nedster,
While they may not come in contact with 'hobby people', they will most certainly come in contact with the the scammers or their residue. And there are exponentially more of 'them' (impulse / uninformed resellers) than 'us'. More than enough to keep a multitude of unethical dregs afloat for a long time.
Scooter

I agree with this. I think there are less veteran buyers out there needing/wanting a real Mantle ball for $500 than there are impulse buyers saying "Wow! Mickey Mantle was my dad's hero, and I can get a ball signed by him for only $250? I'm going to buy one for my boy as a keepsake."

Ken

[Deertick]

Originally Posted by earlywynnfan

I agree with this. I think there are less veteran buyers out there needing/wanting a real Mantle ball for $500 than there are impulse buyers saying "Wow! Mickey Mantle was my dad's hero, and I can get a ball signed by him for only $250? I'm going to buy one for my boy as a keepsake."

Ken

Exactly, or a son buying a Father's Day gift or a wife/mother buying a birthday gift, or, or, or.....a reseller looking for value to flip. The vetting threshold is far lower for these folks than it is for knowledgable collectors.

[JimStinson]

Rich, Just joshing although it IS kinda funny to think of you having a "Topeka" address (smile). Are you going to the National this year ?

[shelly]

I agree with everything that Jim said except for Richard .
Most people can't afford to buy a Jeter ball at $300 plus. So you know exactly what they do. They will buy something for $50 and tell the kid its real. Jim, when you were a kid the players signed. Today its all about the money . You can't stop this without the public saying enough is enough and that won't happen.

[HexsHeroes]

.

. . . is among the list of trusted autograph dealers that I have bought from (along with Averitt, Corcoran, Simon, Gordon, Keating, and Albersheim).

What Jim stated makes sense to me. 100% foolproof it's not, but I'd much rather take most of my chances with these gentlemen, and the remainder on my own opinion, then with most of the unknowns out there.

Thanks Jim.

[travrosty]

I go to the mall of america here in bloomington, they have a field of dreams store. they have mantle, williams, dimaggio large signed photos. i dont like the autographs, they are hologrammned by a document examiner and would come with a field of dreams cert.

so someone who is not deep in the hobby might spend a few hundred dollars because as far as they know, they are shopping at a respected place and it has a couple of certs with the item.

[tinkereversandme]

Welcome aboard Jim. Sure low dollar pieces will always find a home (I.E Sauderton outfit) but it's often hard to find good stories when 80-90% (depending) of the product is fraudulent and it doesn't seem like that trend will stop, but grow. Great dealers are being punished for being honest and it doesn't seem like there isn't the interest to start an organization or lead some kind of revolt against the common enemy. It's just going to get worse... IMO.

Regards,

Larry

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by travrosty

I go to the mall of america here in bloomington, they have a field of dreams store. they have mantle, williams, dimaggio large signed photos. i dont like the autographs, they are hologrammned by a document examiner and would come with a field of dreams cert.

so someone who is not deep in the hobby might spend a few hundred dollars because as far as they know, they are shopping at a respected place and it has a couple of certs with the item.

That is scary and I am sure the mall has no idea and probably does not care as long as they pay their rent.

[RichardSimon]

Jim, that is very much what I have been saying on this board for a long time.
But human nature being what it is, the cheap autograph will always find a home.
Whether with an unknowledgable buyer or with a crooked reseller.
The people on the board have been seeing new entities pop up almost every day now, selling bogus items all over the country.
There seem to be new forgers popping up with regularity in addition to the old ones, that we know and despise, who are still around.
(nice to see your recommendation list, about time you paid me off for all the times I have recommended you ).
And as you I rarely buy in auctions for resale but I can recommend Lelands for sports and non sports and Alexander Autographs for non sports.

ps. Did not know you were such a Carlin fan,,, me too, I saw him twice in person at the Beacon Theater on Broadway. What a show he used to put on. RIP.

[JimStinson]

Rich, I was refering to the autograph dealer Richard Simon that lives in Topeka Kansas, not the one in NYC. Its a fairly common name.