Moral of story: don't sell an altered card. Sorry that I have to out a fellow member.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

I won a lot in REA a couple years ago that contained some T207s that the description said were trimmed. I sent them to SGC to round out a lot for one of their specials, just to get an "A" grade on them. They came back with some pretty nice grades, actually. So if I ever sell them, do I say they are SGC 50, but REA called them trimmed?

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Bought a M116 from TBOB just before Nationals last yr. He sold it as trimmed. Graded a SGC 6. I looked it over and seen nothing wrong and submitted it. Am I supposed to tell the buyer I bought it raw as trimmed but TPG said its a 6 now????

Originally Posted by markf31

So If I purchase a PSA 5 (EX) graded card but I feel that card is in fact EX-MT and should have been graded a 6 (EX-MT) don't I have every right to crack the case and list the card as being in an EX-MT condition and price it according to a EX-MT grade? Would you expect me to detail and disclose in my auction that the card was originally graded a 5 by PSA?

Great stories/thoughts, guys. But you’re letting logic and reason get in the way of a good witch hunt.

[alanu]

I've had cards that were deemed trimmed by one grading service (PSA or SGC) and not by another and in that case don't think any disclosures are necessary, but in this case, unless the card is sent to SGC for grading, I believe full disclosure should be provided.

With that said, for all the PSA/3rd party grading bashers out there (I'm not one of them), why would they care what PSA said about he card.

[Jewish-collector]

I met JMANOS at the 2007 National in Cleveland and he's a really nice guy. Will that help ?

[barrysloate]

Here are my thoughts: Suppose you send a card in for grading, and it comes back trimmed. Then you resubmit it to the same service, or to the other guys, and it now comes back with a numerical grade, and you decide not to disclose this when you sell it. Why is it assumed that you are pulling a fast one?

What if you genuinely believed the card was not trimmed, felt certain the graders got it wrong the first time, and correctly assigned it a number grade upon resubmission. Why should you mention this? Why should the seller be put in the position of having to explain the errors of TPG to his customers? In this example there is nothing pertinent that needs to be disclosed.

[DJR]

.

[kcohen]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Great stories/thoughts, guys. But you’re letting logic and reason get in the way of a good witch hunt.

Witch hunt? Just because you cannot discern that failure to disclose pertinent facts is wrong, doesn't mean that others cannot.

[wonkaticket]

Barry exactly agree 100%.

Ken, did he really keep all that much info back? Said card had funky bottom edge….true he didn't put a big paragraph on how PSA thought it was trimmed he also didn’t scan and post the previous AUTH/Trimmed label but did you really expect him too?

Like I said let me know when we start getting auction house and eBay write ups like I showed above. Otherwise this is just par for the course in this hobby…and if anything this is mini golf compared to what isn’t disclosed to us on a regular basis.

Cheers,

John

[HRBAKER]

Barry,
I agree with your scenario but I see it as different, he had the card resubmitted and it "numbered." For better or worse (I am ambivalent here), that takes his POV out of the equation. In this instance a seller chose to omit what I consider a material fact from the cards past. It may not be altered and he did mention it had a funky bottom.

I'll repeat my question from above; what would we make of a seller whose business model was to focus on and buy slabbed Altered/Authentic cards, crack them out and list them raw with no disclosure. I guess if he deemed that TPGs were mistaken 100% of the time then there is no issue.

John,
I agree this is small potatoes compared to the shenanigans we all suffer (most unknowingly) at the hands of many of the players in this hobby. We all keep going back to the well so I guess at the end of the day it doesn't really matter much.

As a buyer, I would want to know. As a seller, I would have disclosed it. Let's leave it at that.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I think everyone on the board now that Jim is here for the profit value, and offers little to nothing on the main board, just hawks the BST as a low cost way of conducting business. I personally don't like to tactic and chose not to deal with him, this just helps to confirm this.

Plus if you are buying an Net54 and selling on Ebay, you better be prepared to defend yourself because there are many on the board watching both ends.

Lee

[barrysloate]

Jeff- I agree, but I wasn't citing Jim out. I was giving a generic example. Jim's situation was admittedly a little different.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Great stories/thoughts, guys. But you’re letting logic and reason get in the way of a good witch hunt.

Wholeheartedly agree. The TPGs opinions are just opinions--how expert is debatable given the pure $hit I've seen get past them.