Autograph Help - Are these real? Williams, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Ali.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by soxfan12

After thinking about it for a bit, and being encouraged, I thought I'd let you all know where this whole thing originated from. The auction house from which I bought the pictures is Houston Brooks in Maine. I have been going to their auctions for a while and have never seen them do anything that made me wary about their operation, which is part of the reason why I didn't want to mention them. And I think they deserve a lot of credit for how they handled this situation. They also said they aren't going to get the money back from the supplier and were still willing to give me the full refund. So I hope you all can understand why I was a little hesitant to mention them. I just don't want them tarnished for something that, I truly believe, was an honest mistake. They also asked me to leave with them some information from this website and ebay's banned COA list that will give them a starting point for their research the next time something comes in. So, thanks again to you all for the help.

So this crap was sold to an auction house and not consigned?
If it was sold, then it was sold cheap, because the Florida crap sells very cheaply when sold for resale. Chris and I bought test items from what used to be the prime site for this junk and we paid very little, though they hose their buyers on shipping.
Our boy in FLA has produced and sold so much of this junk that he can sell cheaply and still turn a profit.
The crap is flooding the market now in small auctions all over the country.
I hope this thread is highly ranked on Amazon so that people can become aware of what is going on. (sorry brain lock when I wrote this, I meant highly ranked on Google, of course).
Mickey Mantle forgeries.
Ted Williams forgeries
Joe DiMaggio forgeries
Originating in Florida.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

So this crap was sold to an auction house and not consigned?
If it was sold, then it was sold cheap, because the Florida crap sells very cheaply when sold for resale. Chris and I bought test items from what used to be the prime site for this junk and we paid very little, though they hose their buyers on shipping.
Our boy in FLA has produced and sold so much of this junk that he can sell cheaply and still turn a profit.
The crap is flooding the market now in small auctions all over the country.
I hope this thread is highly ranked on Amazon so that people can become aware of what is going on.
Mickey Mantle forgeries.
Ted Williams forgeries
Joe DiMaggio forgeries
Originating in Florida.

Richard if these guys operate anything like the ones we have around here they leave the auctioneer holding the bag. They take the money and run. I know of a local auctioneer that had to refund over $2000 on a guitar that had tons of fake autos. I also bought counterfeit swell cards from one of these crummy outfits and even after proving to them that they were fake they would not return my money. Auctioneers in my state have 10 days to pay their consignor that does not leave much time and these forgers are aware of this.

[RichardSimon]

This Florida crap is like a slow moving tsunami. The remnants of it can travel thousands of miles before polluting the countryside.
I was surprised to find out that this stuff is being sold to auctioneers and that they are the ones being stuck.
I only hope that these guys start to instigate legal investigations and try to help put a stop to this.

[jgmp123]

I have reached the point that if I suspect any autograph/memorabilia and it originated from Florida, always pass....I know that is a broad statement, but not wasting my money...even if it seems like they are giving it away at those prices (which is another dead giveaway that it is a forgery).

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

I have reached the point that if I suspect any autograph/memorabilia and it originated from Florida, always pass....I know that is a broad statement, but not wasting my money...even if it seems like they are giving it away at those prices (which is another dead giveaway that it is a forgery).

The crap is definitely originating in Florida.
By that I mean the Mantle, DiMaggio and Williams, etc stuff. They have branched out into Koufax, Aaron, Schmidt, etc also.
The "vintage" bogus crap (Cobb, Johnson, Ruth, etc),, well not sure yet but some of it is coming from PA. CC I believe is selling their stuff to smaller auction houses and middle men but there are also some older clever forgers operating now and for a long time. When I say clever I don't mean their work is necessarily very good (though some of it is), but it was clever of them to start dumping their stuff into these smaller auctions.
However, it also seems that their is a new breed of poorly skilled forger out there, and that is why there is so much of this stuff now. It is as bad or worse than the days pre-Operation Bullpen.

[jgmp123]

Richard,

After reading the book a few years back, it seemed like they were keeping an established team in place...Has that fallen to the side or are they still very active in finding and prosecuting these companies? I have to assume that with the assistance of Operation Bullpen (FBI) they could easily track this crap back to a handful of sources (forgers). Where are Tim Fitzsimmons and John Ferreira when you need them. :-/

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Richard,

After reading the book a few years back, it seemed like they were keeping an established team in place...Has that fallen to the side or are they still very active in finding and prosecuting these companies? I have to assume that with the assistance of Operation Bullpen (FBI) they could easily track this crap back to a handful of sources (forgers). Where are Tim Fitzsimmons and John Ferreira when you need them. :-/

They are still doing what they can.

[Wymers Auction]

Richard I believe that it is being consigned, but they are no where to be found when it hits the fan.

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

So this crap was sold to an auction house and not consigned?
If it was sold, then it was sold cheap, because the Florida crap sells very cheaply when sold for resale. Chris and I bought test items from what used to be the prime site for this junk and we paid very little, though they hose their buyers on shipping.
Our boy in FLA has produced and sold so much of this junk that he can sell cheaply and still turn a profit.
The crap is flooding the market now in small auctions all over the country.
I hope this thread is highly ranked on Amazon so that people can become aware of what is going on. (sorry brain lock when I wrote this, I meant highly ranked on Google, of course).
Mickey Mantle forgeries.
Ted Williams forgeries
Joe DiMaggio forgeries
Originating in Florida.

[RichardSimon]

It would seem to me that any legit auction house, that cares about their reputation, would do some investigation of items that are consigned to them.
Does this not happen?
I am sure that those that did not are now or in the future paying the consequences.