1869 vs 1870 Red Stocking CdVs

[barrysloate]

Jay- I used to think that the P & S of Cincinnati was the first one out of the gate, but I agree with you that it now seems like the CdV's were issued first. Regarding the Atlantics, no street address is visible. But the ubiquitous ballplayer/equipment ad is on the reverse. The Atlantics were champions in 1868, so that would be the year the team would have been most popular. By 1869 the Red Stockings were the toast of the town. Not sure how popular the 1868 Brooklyn club would have been at that point.

[GaryPassamonte]

Jay- The Chadwick book could have been advertised post-1869 also. I don't think there is absolute certainty about any back being 1869, 1870, etc.

[oldjudge]

Gary-I disagree. I would think that there would be no sense advertising the 1869 book in 1870--there was probably a new book then,

[GaryPassamonte]

After reading the back of your CdV Jay, I have to agree.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Gary-I disagree. I would think that there would be no sense advertising the 1869 book in 1870--there was probably a new book then,

Certainly a good point but a leap of faith, to me, nonetheless. Maybe the book came out in 1869 and it flopped....so they decided to advertise it in 1870. Maybe there was a new book in 1870 maybe not. Until we see more proof it's all conjecture....,but good points.

[oldjudge]

Leon-More than conjecture, my friend. Here is an ad from a book seller for the 1870 edition. He also had an 1867 edition. This was an annual publication.

1870 - "Baseball Players Book of Reference" by Henry Chadwick

138-pg booklet 4"x6", front cover missing, onion-skin type pages, some at front loosely attached, at the back unattached. Has first page, then jumps to page 20 "Rules and Regulations...". Doesn't look like anything is missing - has basically the same information as the 1867 book described above, includingthe same engravings except for the baseball field/pitcher at front, with the exception of a few introductory pages introducing the sport. This book also includes 18 pages of Peck & Snyder sporting goods ads at the back, including engravings of a baseball shirt, pants, shoes, runners, etc. This is the earliest collection of baseball equipment ads I have ever seen. In 1868. Another significant item: in 1868 "safe hits" was added to score-keeping and detailed instructions on the "new statistic" have been added to this book. Before this, it didn't matter how you reached base!

[barrysloate]

Chadwick published various guides every year from the late 1860's well into the 1870's.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Leon-More than conjecture, my friend. Here is an ad from a book seller for the 1870 edition. He also had an 1867 edition. This was an annual publication.

1870 - "Baseball Players Book of Reference" by Henry Chadwick

138-pg booklet 4"x6", front cover missing, onion-skin type pages, some at front loosely attached, at the back unattached. Has first page, then jumps to page 20 "Rules and Regulations...". Doesn't look like anything is missing - has basically the same information as the 1867 book described above, includingthe same engravings except for the baseball field/pitcher at front, with the exception of a few introductory pages introducing the sport. This book also includes 18 pages of Peck & Snyder sporting goods ads at the back, including engravings of a baseball shirt, pants, shoes, runners, etc. This is the earliest collection of baseball equipment ads I have ever seen. In 1868. Another significant item: in 1868 "safe hits" was added to score-keeping and detailed instructions on the "new statistic" have been added to this book. Before this, it didn't matter how you reached base!

Hi Jay
Thanks for posting this. I re-read it a few times and I am not seeing how this dates the CDV definitively to 1869. Can you help explain that? I am sure you are onto something but am not seeing it though I am sure I will eventually. Sometimes I am kind of slow to see stuff. Thanks for all of the info too.....