More T205 stuff....the "ELUSIVE 20"....and more

[Wite3]

Oh yeah...I have the Wiltse right ear confirmed with six backs, Hassan 30 and 649, HLC, Piedmont 25 and 42, and Polar Bear.

Joshua

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Oh yeah...I have the Wiltse right ear confirmed with six backs, Hassan 30 and 649, HLC, Piedmont 25 and 42, and Polar Bear.

Joshua

Thanks for this confirmation, I had a feeling that Wiltse (right ear) had a 6th back....but it isn't an AB. Therefore, this Wiltse is not part of the above group.


(1) I agree with you that the "NOT AS TOUGH TEN" (Bresnahan, Smith and Titus Wilson, etc.) are not that tough relative to the others. However, the point
I am trying to simply make is that these 10 were printed with the same set of tobacco advertisements as the tougher 10. And, this implies to me that they
were all on the same sheet of T205's. Now, correct me if I am wrong here. I do not think there are any other T205 subjects that were printed with this par-
ticular combination of 6 tobacco backs as this group of 20 ?

Speaking about T205 sheets, these 2 scans give us some idea of how these cards were printed. The back scan on the left of my Collins (mouth open) tells
us that this subject was double-printed on the sheet.

My Titus card tells us that Titus and Smith were adjacent cards on the sheet.

.................................................. ............ Collins (mouth open) ............................................... Titus / Smith




(2) Your theory regarding the 12 Minor Leaguers (ML) is very interesting. But, how does one account for the fact that Rowan, Scanlon, Sweeney & Vaughn
were not printed with the Hassan (Factory #649) backs, as were the 12 ML ?

Joshua.....I'm not trying to be picky here, but my T206 front/back "fixation" forces me ask this question.


TED Z

[Ronnie73]

So with a Wiltse (right ear) Hassan 649 confirmed, shouldn't there be another group of 10 or 20 that have the same 6 different backs you listed except the Hassan 649 replacing the American Beauty back?

Ted you are saying that the group of 11 have confirmed AB backs right?

[Wite3]

Ted,
Just not enough known about sheets and the matrix to confirm double prints, etc. It could be a scrap that you have...who knows. I will tell you that the McGraw was printed above the Crandall...and a few other combos but we are not even sure how many cards to a sheet.

In answer to your second question... my list is incomplete as i have not actually seen some of these with green american beauty backs yet (I think Andrew is about to say the same thing). Again, there are several back groupings in t205 and many overlap. With the company pulling, fixing, and substituting fronts and backs to make changes I am not sure we will ever have a complete picture.

Joshua

[Matt]

Originally Posted by Wite3

With the company pulling, fixing, and substituting fronts and backs to make changes I am not sure we will ever have a complete picture.

I think we might be able to get closer then we are right now if there was a public census project done for T205s as was done with T206s. As I understand it the 'super set' information that's been compiled over the years is shared amongst a select few which makes it difficult for the masses to help further the cause. I do understand those folks feeling like they did the work so why should others benefit for free.

[Matt E.]

Not sure if we are talking fronts or back here. Enclosed are loose guidelines I use when collecting T205's. If I can combine the card with the very accurate "list of difficulty" provided by Joshua then all the better.

Ted you seem to be off on this one my friend.



Thanks,

Matt

http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseball/shortprints
Short Prints


http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseba...aleortradepage
Variations

http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseball/minorleaguers
Minor Leaguers


http://imageevent.com/babybingbaseball/thetoughies
Tough to Find

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Wite3

Ted,
Just not enough known about sheets and the matrix to confirm double prints, etc. It could be a scrap that you have...who knows. I will tell you that the McGraw was printed above the Crandall...and a few other combos but we are not even sure how many cards to a sheet.
Joshua

I would say that my Collins is a regular Factory-Cut T205 which was on a sheet whose backs went thru some sloppy printing......it is not a "scrap".




TED Z

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Ted you are saying that the group of 11 have confirmed AB backs right?

First, the Wiltse here has been eliminated as part of this group; therefore, not found with an AB back......thanks Joshua.

I have not seen the other 10 subjects with AB backs. However, when I was putting together my T205 set in the 1990's and searching for different backs,
several veteran T205 collectors told me that these 10 subjects can be found with AB backs. Let's hope some one chimes in here and solves this mystery.









TED Z

I can confirm Barger partial B, White, Rowan, Fisher, and scanlan with Pied 42 so these subjects are possible with AB backs. I do not have any of these in an AB back and believe I won't either because they don't exist. We need confirmed list but just like the Graham thread no one wants to share any info(yes people have contributed but no where near the help I thought). We have at least 10-15 T205 collectors that I know of and many others that do collect them but only 5-6 have anything to contribute where as in t206's you have 100's of guys and so many stupid "variations/errors" it makes my head spin. We as T205 collectors cant get the Doc white PB "no quotes" acknowledged, now the graham blue sig Pied 25, and also the Miller B, D, and B/D, variations. Why would we put all of our hard work out there when realistically no one really cares or wants to contribute to the cause. This is just how I feel.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

I can confirm Barger partial B, White, Rowan, Fisher, and scanlan with Pied 42 so these subjects are possible with AB backs. I do not have any of these in an AB back and believe I won't either because they don't exist. We need confirmed list but just like the Graham thread no one wants to share any info(yes people have contributed but no where near the help I thought). We have at least 10-15 T205 collectors that I know of and many others that do collect them but only 5-6 have anything to contribute where as in t206's you have 100's of guys and so many stupid "variations/errors" it makes my head spin. We as T205 collectors cant get the Doc white PB "no quotes" acknowledged, now the graham blue sig Pied 25, and also the Miller B, D, and B/D, variations. Why would we put all of our hard work out there when realistically no one really cares or wants to contribute to the cause. This is just how I feel.

ANDREW

You and Joshua are our T205 guys and I certainly defer to your's and Joshua's expertise. I've been convinced that the subjects that I've referred as the "TOUGH TEN"
in my 1st post here are not found with AMERICAN BEAUTY (AB) backs. My mistake, I mis-read my data that I got back in the 1990's when I was collecting T205's.

Furthermore, I think you'll agree, that the other 10 subjects (that I've referred to as the "SOMEWHAT TOUGH TEN") are indeed found with AB backs. Therefore, I have
re-defined my 1st post here to reflect these differences.

You are absolutely right, there are not enough meaningful T205 threads on Net54. As you know, I am always fascinated with the front/back combos of these T-cards.
I would like to see more of that data with respect to the T205's.


TED Z