What is your definition of "RARE?"

drc · #1 04-21-2012, 11:53 PM

I don't have a specific number as to what is rare. Though I'll know when I disagree with a seller who says something is rare.

I would call the T206 Honus Wagner rare.

Though every time this subject comes up, I give the exact same definition of scarce and no one listens to me. And I'll do it next time too. You know that Milton Friedman quote don't you?

barrysloate · #2 04-22-2012, 06:14 AM

Rob- the rarity scale, if it were ever to work in the baseball card hobby, would have to be based on documented examples, or those accepted from very reliable and credible sources. If somebody said, I know someone who has a Wagner but he wants to remain anonymous and doesn't want to provide a scan, it would not be counted in the population.

Peter- Alan Hagar was a coin dealer, after all.

It's unclear whether our hobby wants to employ a rarity scale, but it has worked successfully in the vintage coin market. One problem I see with it is it gives dealers yet another reason to charge even more. If a card was say a R5, be sure the price is going to be jacked up. So when you go to a show, instead of being offered a card at triple retail expect to pay quadruple.

Matt · #3 04-22-2012, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

It's unclear whether our hobby wants to employ a rarity scale, but it has worked successfully in the vintage coin market. One problem I see with it is it gives dealers yet another reason to charge even more. If a card was say a R5, be sure the price is going to be jacked up. So when you go to a show, instead of being offered a card at triple retail expect to pay quadruple.

I believe this is precisely what the population reports have done. "This is only 1 of 11 at this grading tier with only 3 higher..."

David - per my post above, I agree 100% with your comments on the term "scarce." It isn't even a case of agree/disagree; you are quoting the definition of the word.

betafolio2 · #4 04-23-2012, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

I believe this is precisely what the population reports have done. "This is only 1 of 11 at this grading tier with only 3 higher..."

Matt, you nailed it! I see sellers on eBay using this information all the time to make their cards sound more exciting and desirable! But it doesn't work on me. And besides, I know (or can pretty well assume) that if there are, say, 5 of a given card at a given grade in a population report, there are probably twice or thrice as many actually out there in the world, or maybe more, because there are lots of collectors like me who have never submitted anything for grading and never will. Of course, PSA et al. would prefer to pretend that collectors like me don't exist. I guess you could say they don't consider US part of the population!

Exhibitman · #5 04-23-2012, 11:32 AM

Paradoxically, the pop reports will often overstate the rarity of common cards and understate the rarity of the stars because people are more ready to drop the grading fees on having stars slabbed than commons.

tbob · #6 04-24-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Paradoxically, the pop reports will often overstate the rarity of common cards and understate the rarity of the stars because people are more ready to drop the grading fees on having stars slabbed than commons.

Good point. +1

bestsmoke · #7 04-24-2012, 02:09 PM

I think a Perfect Game is Rare, so 21 or fewer.

t206blogcom · #8 04-23-2012, 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by betafolio2

I see sellers on eBay using this information all the time to make their cards sound more exciting and desirable! But it doesn't work on me.

Exactly - 'Rare' on eBay is more of a marketing tool than an accurate description. While most on this board will see through the false rarity claims on eBay, there are many others on eBay who don't and do pay premiums for relatively common cards. I don't fault the sellers as they're trying to get top dollar for their auctions. I fault the uninformed buyers who not knowing what they're buying.

drc · #9 04-23-2012, 12:34 PM

A problem with rarity numbers is no one knows how many of a given card exists.

After all, the Murphy's Law of Pre-War collecting is purchasing the "only one in existence" means a second will show up on eBay the next week.

If you guys decided a rarity scale was the way to go-- you'd have endless arguments of how many of the cards exists.

Start with the T206 Honus Wagner. Let's hammer out how many exist.

joeadcock · #10 04-24-2012, 05:14 AM

Another problem with population reports. Who knows how many of the cards were cracked out(lets say from PSA) and submitted to another grading company.

Hence, there is actually less supply of some cards out there(with respect to graded card only, of course).

What is stored in someone's home/vault or yet to be found, will only probably be partially known in the future.

ctownboy · #11 04-24-2012, 05:06 PM

It will never happen but the best way to truly find out what is rare and what isn't would be if the value of the card was based on the number that could be proven in existence.

I love using this as an example. I have a 1928 Star Player Candy card of Buddy Myer. Up until I displayed this card on the old board about six years ago, this card was unknown. Now, including mine, there are two known to exist.

You would think because of its rarity it MUST be extremely valuable. Not so.

Yes, I was offered $1,000 dollars for the card but compared to a T206 Honus Wagner, of which at least 60 more are known, this card is valued WAAAAAAAY less.

So, two Buddy Myer cards known to exist and you can buy them for the equivalent of a good computer and an iPhone. Thirty times more T206 Honus Wagners known and, for the same condition card, you are looking at paying the price of a decent sized house in a nice suburban neighborhood.

David

Rob D. · #12 04-22-2012, 08:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Rob- the rarity scale, if it were ever to work in the baseball card hobby, would have to be based on documented examples, or those accepted from very reliable and credible sources.

And there's the rub, Barry. One man's (or board's) reliable source is another's fantasy writer.

barrysloate · #13 04-22-2012, 09:25 AM

Well somehow they manage to do it with large cents. You wouldn't believe the documentation they have.

And as Matt suggested, you can't document by TPG pop reports, because those are woefully inaccurate.

Bottom line: we probably won't see it with baseball cards.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Definition needed on photos	RichardSimon	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	2	12-12-2009 10:50 PM
Pre-WWII definition for card collecting	mart8081	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	13	10-10-2009 12:53 AM
Net 54's Definition of Card	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	20	10-03-2007 01:27 PM
Terminology definition	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	8	08-04-2004 02:34 PM
the definition of rarity	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	21	09-16-2003 02:36 PM