What is your definition of "RARE?"

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Fripples

Gee, "rare." I guess that would be defined as..RARE???

Bloody hell, what?

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Bloody hell, what?

couldn't resist I see.

[Ronnie73]

Here is the Rarity Scale from Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. (One of the best reference books ever created for coin collectors) I know, I know, coins, but the definition should be the same.

Unique = 1
Nearly Unique = 2-3
Extremely Rare = 4-12
Very Rare = 13-30
Rare = 31-75
Very Scarce = 76-200
Scarce = 201-500
Uncommon = 501-1250
Common = 1251-and up

[barrysloate]

Rarity is relative. Every E107, for example, is a rare card but because so few people collect the set and most are happy with an example or two, nobody thinks of an E107 common as a rare card. But if there was a T206 with as few known examples as an E107 common- Wagner and Plank come to mind- then it would be thought of as a great rarity.

But no question the term is overused by sellers who mistakenly believe that if they call a common card rare it will sell for more money.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Rarity is relative. Every E107, for example, is a rare card but because so few people collect the set and most are happy with an example or two, nobody thinks of an E107 common as a rare card. But if there was a T206 with as few known examples as an E107 common- Wagner and Plank come to mind- then it would be thought of as a great rarity.

But no question the term is overused by sellers who mistakenly believe that if they call a common card rare it will sell for more money.

Agreed.

[E93]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Rarity is relative. Every E107, for example, is a rare card but because so few people collect the set and most are happy with an example or two, nobody thinks of an E107 common as a rare card. But if there was a T206 with as few known examples as an E107 common- Wagner and Plank come to mind- then it would be thought of as a great rarity.

But no question the term is overused by sellers who mistakenly believe that if they call a common card rare it will sell for more money.

Good point Barry. There is a bit of relativity to demand in the equation for me. T206 is a good example. The Doyle NY Natl is an extreme rarity (8 known I think) because so many people would like one, but I am trying to put together another set (N167) for which every card in the set is more rare than the Doyle.
JimB

[E93]

The first thought that came to mind when I saw the question was, "Less than 20 known".
JimB

[Publius]

Originally Posted by E93

The first thought that came to mind when I saw the question was, "Less than 20 known".
JimB

Ditto less than 10-20 in existence is pretty damn rare.

[Bicem]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Here is the Rarity Scale from Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. (One of the best reference books ever created for coin collectors) I know, I know, coins, but the definition should be the same.

Unique = 1
Nearly Unique = 2-3
Extremely Rare = 4-12
Very Rare = 13-30
Rare = 31-75
Very Scarce = 76-200
Scarce = 201-500
Uncommon = 501-1250
Common = 1251-and up

works for me!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Here is the Rarity Scale from Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. (One of the best reference books ever created for coin collectors) I know, I know, coins, but the definition should be the same.

Unique = 1
Nearly Unique = 2-3
Extremely Rare = 4-12
Very Rare = 13-30
Rare = 31-75
Very Scarce = 76-200
Scarce = 201-500
Uncommon = 501-1250
Common = 1251-and up

For Pre-war cards it works up to rare, for me. After that, not as much. This is a pretty good table overall though...

[betafolio2]

Originally Posted by Ronnie73

Here is the Rarity Scale from Walter Breen's Complete Encyclopedia of U.S. and Colonial Coins. (One of the best reference books ever created for coin collectors) I know, I know, coins, but the definition should be the same.

Unique = 1
Nearly Unique = 2-3
Extremely Rare = 4-12
Very Rare = 13-30
Rare = 31-75
Very Scarce = 76-200
Scarce = 201-500
Uncommon = 501-1250
Common = 1251-and up

I remembered seeing a list like this years ago, but I wouldn't have been able to recall where. Thanks to Ronnie for posting this! The only term and definition on this list that I could remember with absolute certainty was UNIQUE, which literally means ONLY ONE! While this thread is all about use -- or mis-use -- of the word rare, what really irks me is when people mis-use the word unique. As in, wow, your 2012 Toyota Prius is really unique!

[Ronnie73]

Just did an ebay search on T206's. Lots of rare cards, a few very rare and even a unique card with a Piedmont back lol. Also, gotta love those "shrink wrapped" cards and the cards that are Beauty's but not American Beauty's. I like descriptions that are complete with no extras. Some just put T206 and the player name, then you have to click on the auction to see what the grade and back is. I know, descripion is a completly different topic but just needed to vent my frustration somewhere.

[barrysloate]

The coin rarity rating is not really adjectival but in common usage a numerical one. Coins are rated from Rarity 1, the most common, to rarity 8, which approaches unique.

For example, a T206 Wagner, assuming 60-75 are known, would be a R5-.

A T206 Plank, assuming 100+ known, would rate a R4.

A Cobb with Cobb back, of which there are roughly 13, would be a 6+.

And a Doyle Nat'l, with 8 known, would be a R7.

The coin hobby, which has been around a little longer than ours, has a very good knowledge of how many of every date and variety are known. All the great rarities have been well documented. As more research and data accumulation is done with vintage baseball cards, the more likely a similar rarity scale will be implemented.

[Leon]

One caveat to this whole debate is the word "known" beside each of the numbers. As was pointed out, the coin hobby is more mature and DOES have mintage numbers. Not so, the pre-war card hobby. As someone who collects rare and scarce cards we better put the term "known" next to the copies known about today. How many T207 Red Crosses were there 3 yrs ago and how many are known today? (as an example)

[oldjudge]

Barry, my friend, I disagree with what you say. Rarity is not relative, it is absolute. Rarity does not imply value or demand. It simply implies that there ain't much of the rare item. The Doyle is the only rare card, albeit a variation, in the T206 set. Wagner and Plank, while not rare are very valuable. Many E107s are rare. All N167s are rare. No N300 is rare.

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

As more research and data accumulation is done with vintage baseball cards, the more likely a similar rarity scale will be implemented.

I doubt that such a scale would be accepted in our hobby -- at least not in our lifetime. At least not as long as "research" is defined by some folks as "I talked to someone at the Reading show, and we came to the conclusion that XX number of these cards exist."

Or: "I've received emails, and based on 100 reponses, we can conclude this variation is a rarity."

Already we know that some of the hobby's data, along with the "research" done to accumulate and bastardize it, is inaccurate. So until that unfortunate hurdle is overcome, anything based on that data will be greeted with skepticism. As it should be.

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

The coin rarity rating is not really adjectival but in common usage a numerical one. Coins are rated from Rarity 1, the most common, to rarity 8, which approaches unique.

For example, a T206 Wagner, assuming 60-75 are known, would be a R5-.

A T206 Plank, assuming 100+ known, would rate a R4.

A Cobb with Cobb back, of which there are roughly 13, would be a 6+.

And a Doyle Nat'l, with 8 known, would be a R7.

The coin hobby, which has been around a little longer than ours, has a very good knowledge of how many of every date and variety are known. All the great rarities have been well documented. As more research and data accumulation is done with vintage baseball cards, the more likely a similar rarity scale will be implemented.

I left out the R1 to R8 rating thinking it might be more coin related but heres the actual scale with the R1 to R8 ratings.

R8 - Unique = 1
R8 - Nearly Unique = 2-3
R7 - Extremely Rare = 4-12
R6 - Very Rare = 13-30
R5 - Rare = 31-75
R4 - Very Scarce = 76-200
R3 - Scarce = 201-500
R2 - Uncommon = 501-1250
R1 - Common = 1251-and up

Also, Heres some interesting history of the Rarity Scale. It was written by Noel Humphreys around 1853 and was mainly used only for large cents dated 1793-1814. It was later modernized by Dr. Sheldon around 1949.

One more thing, Leon is right, nearly all coin mintages are known and card mintages are not but the coin Rarity Scale is mostly used to rate varieties of coins and not the actual total mintages. The scale is to be used to describe whats known at the time meaning an item can move up and down the scale as items are found and lost.