Was I Shilled??

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Paul- you know if someone is cheating you you can actually pass, even on a card you need. That's one way to handle it.

Look, you can do whatever you want with your money, but you don't have to accept somebody shilling you. It's your call.

Of course. I just don't feel "cheated" if it's a price I'd pay for a card I'd need.

[barrysloate]

Quick question: a lot has a current bid of $500, and you leave a ceiling of $1000. There are no other bidders, so you would win the lot for $550. But in the last few minutes the auction house throws in a shill bid of $900, and you now have to pay $950 for the lot. And you're okay with that?

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Quick question: a lot has a current bid of $500, and you leave a ceiling of $1000. There are no other bidders, so you would win the lot for $550. But in the last few minutes the auction house throws in a shill bid of $900, and you now have to pay $950 for the lot. And you're okay with that?

Does the house know my ceiling bid?

Also, I have never EVER placed a "ceiling bid". Why would you?

[barrysloate]

A ceiling bid is a valid option. Not everyone can stay up until 4:00 AM to bid. If it's handled honestly by the auction house it's a useful bidding tool.

[HRBAKER]

Not EVER placing a ceiling bid is the same to me as saying you mind/care if you get shilled.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Not EVER placing a ceiling bid is the same to me as saying you mind/care if you get shilled.

Yes -- I see that point. I think the reason I don't care if I get shilled is that I keep myself out of shill situations. I bid incrementally.

[barrysloate]

Auction houses are not allowed to place bids whether they know the ceiling or not. If there is a reserve, they must state so in the lot description.

And I know the rules are different for a live auction, such as Sotheby's or Christie's. When you bid there, and the auctioneer calls out the bids, you have absolutely no idea what is going on- you don't know if they are real or just the house bidding up to the reserve.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

A ceiling bid is a valid option. Not everyone can stay up until 4:00 AM to bid. If it's handled honestly by the auction house it's a useful bidding tool.

Ahhhhh... Now we may be on to something. I have never left a ceiling bid, not because I am worried about shilling, but because I am worried about other bidders. This is, of course, why "sniping" on ebay is so vital. If you place a "ceiling bid" on ebay you can only pay more for an item than if you had placed a "snipe" instead.

If I left a ceiling bid, and the auction house knew my ceiling bid, and bid right up to it, that is not a "hidden reserve," in my opinion. That is a lot more unfair than the auction house placing a hidden bid on its own behalf without knowing the top of the extant bidding market.

Perhaps I do not mind "shilling" because I never disclose my "ceiling" to the house.

[Runscott]

edited: pulling out, as this thread has gone to shlt.

[calvindog]

The auction house fraudsters are reading this thread and laughing at some of the idiotic comments here. For real.