Was I Shilled??

[Runscott]

Well, maybe it's a cover-up for a shill i.d., but the accused 0-feedback shiller did a BIN within the last hour, from the same seller.

I have had a few 0-feedback bidders who won their first item with me and became regular customers. Everyone one of us had 0 feedback at one point.

Scott <=== guess I'm one of the blind idiots some have described in this thread.

[tbob]

When I first started bidding on pre-war cards on ebay many years ago and I had a 0 feedback, I recall that I also bid on a number of tobacco cards, all from the same seller. It took me a while to feel comfortable with ebay and begin putting bids in on different items from different sellers so I don't think that per se means a guy is shilling. I also have agreed in the past on some posts when suspected shilling is mentioned but I have also felt some posters are a little too shill-happy to jump to conclusions. I never called anyone an idiot or a moron for disagreeing with my opinion though....

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by tbob

I never called anyone an idiot or a moron for disagreeing with my opinion though....

When you're in a debate with someone and they call you an idiot or a moron, it is a pretty good sign that you made a good point.

[T206Collector]

I have a great shilling idea -- let's have an auction house where the house ADMITS that there will be shill bidding. I believe that just as many people will participate and will bid what they want to pay for the card.

Would the shill-haters at least agree that that would be the same thing as an auction house that has a hidden reserve?

[barrysloate]

A hidden reserve is legal, shilling is not. I don't see how you can compare them.

Shilling is fraud; I don't see how anybody in this discussion can defend fraud. You may be resigned that it will happen, but you should never stop fighting against it, and exposing it when you can.

And if there were an auction house who admitted to shilling, I don't believe there would be very many bidders.

I have to say this is one of the oddest debates we've ever had.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

And if there were an auction house who admitted to shilling, I don't believe there would be very many bidders.

Why? If there was a card I needed, you couldn't keep me from bidding in an auction that permitted shill bidding. I'm really supposed to pass on potentially buying a card for a price that I'd be willing to pay?

Now, maybe on principle, you avoid the auction house no matter what. But, you're only hurting your own collection, in my opinion.

[carrigansghost]

This is better than Facebook!!!

Rawn

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

Why?

Because Id go somewhere else. The stuff I collect isn't so rare that it only comes around with Halley's comet...I'm patient enough to find another source and don't like any negative feelings associated with my collection.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

A hidden reserve is legal, shilling is not. I don't see how you can compare them.

Shilling is fraud; I don't see how anybody in this discussion can defend fraud. You may be resigned that it will happen, but you should never stop fighting against it, and exposing it when you can.

And if there were an auction house who admitted to shilling, I don't believe there would be very many bidders.

Completely agree. With that said, this case come down to one of two scenarios. 1) Shilled after the seller (with a good track record) falsified an account and BINed multiple items, paying the fees on what appear to be small purchases to set up this much larger sale by comparison. 2) It was honest - Either way, Dave is right and to accuse someone of shilling is very serious and needs proof.