Was I Shilled??

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

How does everyone conclude the guy w/ 0 feedback set a snipe? The bid was entered with 7 seconds left...that how I do it and dont belong to a snipe service. If it were a snipe is that relevant and how? Thanks to anyone for some help here...

I'm using snipe as a generic term for a last second bid. Not necessarily that he used a sniping service to put the bid in.

[calvindog]

Dave, I don't need to read the whole thread. I understand that clucking hens like to see a conspiracy behind every shadow in order to make things more interesting for them on this forum. God forbid one just looks at the facts as laid out without trying to be counter-intuitive. It's a shill. The only way it could be more obvious would be if the underbidder's ebay name was BILL MASTRO. But I understand the reticence of some posters here to call a spade a spade -- many here think that shill bidding is ok as long as you don't pay more than what you wanted for a card.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Dave, I don't need to read the whole thread. I understand that clucking hens like to see a conspiracy behind every shadow in order to make things more interesting for them on this forum. God forbid one just looks at the facts as laid out without trying to be counter-intuitive. It's a shill. The only way it could be more obvious would be if the underbidder's ebay name was BILL MASTRO. But I understand the reticence of some posters here to call a spade a spade -- many here think that shill bidding is ok as long as you don't pay more than what you wanted for a card.

Why do you think it's obvious?

The timing of every other bid in that history indicates a "Buy It Now", because the seller didn't even have any auctions running at the time those bids were placed.

Is it simply because it's a "0" feedback bidder?

[camlov2]

Looking at the other items for sale in the last few weeks I can't put together 15 items that make sense. I don't understand the bidding on Buy-it-now items but I also don't understand any connection between this Babe Ruth album and the rest of the sellers items (except 3-4 yankee cards).

I would guess shill, would be interesting to revisit this buyers info in a couple weeks. (and also see if any feedback ever appears).

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by camlov2

Looking at the other items for sale in the last few weeks I can't put together 15 items that make sense. I don't understand the bidding on Buy-it-now items but I also don't understand any connection between this Babe Ruth album and the rest of the sellers items (except 3-4 yankee cards).

I would guess shill, would be interesting to revisit this buyers info in a couple weeks. (and also see if any feedback ever appears).

They sell oddball International tobacco and trading cards.

There doesn't have to be any other Babe Ruth or Yankee connection.

I know lots of collectors who have very eclectic tastes and don't pigeon hole themselves into a particular category.

Murray's Cards have been around for decades. I'm sure they have plenty such customers.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Many here think that shill bidding is ok as long as you don't pay more than what you wanted for a card.

+1 (Do I recognize it is fraudulent behavior according to the law and our societal expectations? Sure. Do I care when it happens to me? Not in the least. Consider me blissfully ignorant.)

[calvindog]

And the perfect fraud victim.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And the perfect fraud victim.

+1

I try not to bid more than I should but I should also get a good buy if no one else bids legitimately. Hell yes I care if I am shilled. If someone doesn't want to sell an item for a lower than they want amount then there are legitimate ways to do that. Shilling isn't one of them.

[ctownboy]

Wow, people paying more than they otherwise would and they don't mind?

This either means they have so much money it doesn't really matter or they have more money than sense. Either way, I have a deal for you.

Since you don't mind spending more on something than you otherwise would, the next time you guys decide to spend X amount on something but get it for Y (a lesser amount) I will (if you send me a private E mail) give you my PayPal address. That way, you still get the thing you wanted for the amount you wanted to pay.

For example, you want a certain T206 card and are willing to pay $100 dollars for it. However, at auction end, you win it for $65 dollars. So you have an extra $35 dollars you didn't plan on having. Just send that extra $35 dollars my way.....

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by ctownboy

Wow, people paying more than they otherwise would and they don't mind?

I have no problem playing in hypotheticals, but your fundamental misunderstanding of what I am saying is in your first question "People paying more than they otherwise would".

I do not think that an auction with a shill means I am not getting an item for less than I "otherwise would." Sellers who shill take that into account when they list items. If you could stop shilling 100%, you would not open a world of cheap goods for yourself. You'd open a world of higher prices disclosed at the beginning. In either world, you pay the same. That's why I don't care.

What all "Shill-Haters" want is the price that the item would have sold for if there was no shill, right? When I turn back the clock, I don't stop at the time of the shill bid. I go back to the auction beginning. If you could tie the seller's hands as a shiller before he listed the item he never would have listed the item at the price he did. He'd have set an open reserve or a higher minimum bid.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by calvindog

And the perfect fraud victim.

What can I say? I like being fraudulently induced to buy baseball cards at prices I am comfortable paying. You can fraudulently induce me into that kind of racket all day and all night. I'm not looking for bargains based on some puritanical expectation of an auction format. I'm happy to pay what the seller wants me to pay, if I'm happy with the price. Most of the time there is a big fat sticker in a grocery aisle. Sometimes the seller plays games. Never have I paid money involuntarily.

On this one, I think it is pretty evident that a new guy joined ebay in order to buy some of this guy's BINs, and then he saw this album at auction and was interested in bidding.

The only way you can prove that this was a shill based on the objective facts that we have today is if you can explain all the prior BIN purchases. If you are ignoring the prior BIN purchases you are not willing to engage in a serious discussion on this topic. Period.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

The only way you can prove that this was a shill based on the objective facts that we have today is if you can explain all the prior BIN purchases. If you are ignoring the prior BIN purchases you are not willing to engage in a serious discussion on this topic. Period.

Quit using logic on these people. It's not working.

[Runscott]

Well, maybe it's a cover-up for a shill i.d., but the accused 0-feedback shiller did a BIN within the last hour, from the same seller.

I have had a few 0-feedback bidders who won their first item with me and became regular customers. Everyone one of us had 0 feedback at one point.

Scott <=== guess I'm one of the blind idiots some have described in this thread.

[Peter_Spaeth]

As a hobby issue, shill bidding is vastly overrated. It's unfortunate, but it's a fact of life, and the result isn't all that different from a hidden reserve. If I win a card at a price I am comfortable paying, I am not going to lose sleep about whether I was run up. There are far worse problems in the hobby, namely altered cards and fake memorabilia.