CBS Baseball card collecting story "It's gonna die... "

[ullmandds]

Good article...and i hate to say it but i kinda agree...what will this hobby look like in 75 years?

[johnmh71]

I think the hobby will be right where it is now - quality vintage being in demand and mass produced cards being undesirable. I loaded up on vintage in the 80's while all my buddies bought new product. And only one of us is still collecting. Go figure.

[carrigansghost]

I watched and the show did bring up some issues in the hobby. Middle aged white guys were supposedly the only ones left collecting. Damn, must mean that I've hit middle age.

Rawn

[E93]

Maybe the '90's crap won't have much value, but I don't see the vintage market going away. WIth prices on the rise, indications are that it will be here.
JimB

[rainier2004]

I understand the middle-aged white guy agrument, but at last years National I saw more kids than I had at show a show in a few years. I also saw into more women doing their own collecting as opposed to following their man around at the show. I still think moving playoff/WS games to 9pm is the dumbest thing for the sport, cards and their futures...children are always the key to sustainability and MLB seems to miss this point from my view.

[prewarsports]

12 years ago when I first stumbled onto the Fullcount forum, my brother and I were BY FAR the youngest guys on the board at 23 and 22 years old. People were saying the same exact thing then and we were the only young vintage collectors to pipe up and give hope to the "inevitable decline". Now, you go to a place like the National Convention and it is filled with 30-40 year old men buying vintage cards and they just needed some time and disposable income to come around.

I just sold a vintage card to a 10 year old on ebay in December and thought it was so cool that I sent him a free Al Simmons card from the 1930's too. He sent me an awesome thank you note in the mail which I have hanging on my wall about how he trying to collect all the "Hall of Famers". People will ALWAYS collect this stuff but it usually starts later in life now and not from collecting as a kid trying to pull Griffey Rookies like it did with my generation.

Rhys Yeakley

[DanP]

Rhett,

Saw your post regarding the 10 yr old collecting HOF'ers. If you give me his information I'd be willing to send him a couple of vintages HOF'ers for free.

danp306@gmail.com

[GoldenAge50s]

Yeah, I saw it. Showed a little ole' show hall in Smalltown PA w/ only a few middle age men in attendance & bemoaning the loss of the kids & collectors in general to the hobby.

The point was all "doom & gloom" but it's pretty hard to paint an accurate picture of the state of the Hobby in a 5 minute piece.

[HRBAKER]

CBS could probably run a similar segment lamenting the decline of their own network newscast. Nothing stays the same forever.

[CharleyBrown]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

CBS could probably run a similar segment lamenting the decline of their own network newscast. Nothing stays the same forever.

I actually mentioned the same thing on the PSA boards...

There is some irony behind the idea of a network newscast/cable TV talking about the collapse of another industry.

I do believe that distribution methods need to be re-evaluated for the newer cards. At this point, I feel as though Topps is figuring that the younger generations are a lost cause when that is simply not the case.

I teach HS, and many of the boys in my 9th and 10th grade classes did at one point collect cards, and they love baseball.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by johnmh71

I think the hobby will be right where it is now - quality vintage being in demand and mass produced cards being undesirable.

100% agree and the better the condition the more demand for sure.

[Cooper1927]

I just sold a vintage card to a 10 year old on ebay in December and thought it was so cool that I sent him a free Al Simmons card from the 1930's too. He sent me an awesome thank you note in the mail which I have hanging on my wall about how he trying to collect all the "Hall of Famers". People will ALWAYS collect this stuff but it usually starts later in life now and not from collecting as a kid trying to pull Griffey Rookies like it did with my generation.

I think this illustrates a large point. You see middle age folks at shows because they aren't as linked up with computers as younger people. While middle aged folks may buy some or most of their items on the Internet, young people would not think of doing it otherwise.

A recent trip to an antique shop by my house landed some 1887 actress cards(like the OJ's), and about 60 Arm and Hammer bird cards. My 3 yr old Kadence loved them so much now she has her own card set to build. My 6 yr old Melody is into T206's and is well into around 15% done. They both always drop everything and come running when I bust out my cards. I love answering their questions, telling them the history and info, and watching them and the look on their face when they hold them. I do hope that as time goes they will continue the interest in this and have that common bond with all of us.

With that being said I hope I have planted a few seedlings in the forest we call a hobby so that it may grow with the future

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

I have been informed that I was actually in the report. Obvious;y in my younger days when I had curly hair and a mullet and it has been pointed out I had a pink shirt (a sales girl convinced me to buy it, didn't do much good) and light blue pants on.

If anyone finds a video of the report I would love to see it. I was on the National news one other time when we were set up in San Fran for the largest show ever around 1990. Once again, was not able to see it just heard from others I was on.

As far as a decline, I do not see it in the Pre WWII market, but what might get hit hard is the 50's market once the people that grew up in that generation start leaving us. There is far more of these cards then the Pre WWII.

Where the market goes I am not that concerned since I enjoy the cards. I have been able to buy and sell to expand my collection. This would not have been possible without some frugile and smart buying in the early 2000's.

Please let me know if anyone finds the video.

Lee

[DixieBaseball]

I thought the report failed in identifying the part of the baseball card market that is alive and doing reasonably well. (Vintage Pre war) Every picture/video they showed was from 80's-90's, and then they sprinkled in some 50's and 60's. I did not see any Pre 50's cards or recall hearing anyting about vintage pre war stuff. Perhaps I missed it, but I thought it was lacking, but accurate if they would have said Post war collecting market. They did a one size fits all and we simply know that is not true.

2 cents

[Ronnie73]

Originally Posted by NashvilleBaseball

I thought the report failed in identifying the part of the baseball card market that is alive and doing reasonably well. (Vintage Pre war) Every picture/video they showed was from 80's-90's, and then they sprinkled in some 50's and 60's. I did not see any Pre 50's cards or recall hearing anyting about vintage pre war stuff. Perhaps I missed it, but I thought it was lacking, but accurate if they would have said Post war collecting market. They did a one size fits all and we simply know that is not true.

2 cents

Your exactly right. I thought the same thing. How can they say everything is on the decline when some vintage cards are out of control. I guess there are no vintage card collectors at CBS that could of contributed to the research before airing the segment.

[carrigansghost]

Nice mullet Lee. I wondered if any board members were in the story. Bringing my 14 year old to the Boston show this weekend again. What I find with the younger crowd is they reach a huge excitement level to open stuff from the mail, but then need the next fix extremely soon.

Rawn

[johnmh71]

I think it is also important to point out that current attendance at small, local shows is usually mixed. They drew alot of people in the 80's and 90's, but that isn't always the case anymore. I believe that the National and large regional shows are more of an example of where the hobby stands today.

I will be in Wilmington, MA next weekend and I know that I won't be alone.

[BlueDevil89]

I didn't find the CBS piece to be insightful at all. Yes, card shows are not as big as they used to be in the 80's --- that's news?!? CBS is only about a decade or two late with this story.

The fact that CBS completely ignored that the collectors market has transitioned from face-to-face card shows, brick-&-mortar card shops, and mail order catalogs to the internet is unbelieveable. In failing to mention the rise of eBay and the impact that it has had on the baseball card market, CBS demonstrates that it has done nothing more than prepare a poorly researched fluff piece for Sunday morning viewers. The segment represents the extremely poor quality of journalism that has become synonymous with the CBS brand in recent years.

It is true that there are many new forms of entertainment (including electronics and the internet) vying for the attention of young people in this day and age. However, baseball has a wider audience than ever and MLB stands to gain more fans in the coming years as the sport becomes more international. Granted, baseball card companies such as Topps have failed to capture the imagination of young people in recent decades. They have chosen to take the easy approach of turning card collecting into gambling through the use of rare inserts. They target adults who stand outside a K-marts ripping through packs of cards, only to throw away the common junk and buy more packs, seeking that Babe Ruth autograph that they can sell for thousands on eBay (just like a person who spends the afternoon scratching off lottery tickets in a convenience store looking for the one with a $10,000 prize). Eventually, the producers of baseball cards will come to the realization that there has been a paradigm shift in the way that kids collect sports cards, and they will go back to the drawing board in their marketing war rooms and come up with a strategy to re-energize the hobby. The product may be something completely different from the cardboard of the past (...but it won't be eTopps cards...).

As far as vintage cards are concerned, the value of those cards have generally soared higher since the 1980's, with very few exceptions. I see nothing but inflation ahead for cards produced prior to the 80's, and especially for pre-war cards. The vintage market may be dominated by middle-aged white guys, but that's because the prices have risen so much. Kids will need to reach adulthood to have the necessary cash to play in that game.

The baseball card market is alive and well. Card shows have been largely replaced by the internet. Baseball and all of the major sports will continue to grow in popularity, and there will be new types of collectibles developed and produced to fuel the hobby. Cards from the vintage era will be in greater and greater demand, resulting in ever-higher record prices for the antique gems of our beloved pastime.

[travrosty]

I knew it was going to be the same old type of story once i saw them call a 52 topps mickey mantle, his 'rookie' card, and then go to the standard mr. mint interview. not that mr. mint wouldn't have anything insightful to say, but it just shows they kind of didn't dig very deep into this story.

in the late 80's and early 90's football cards started it off with the proliferation of many, many new companies coming into the market, leaf, press pass, skybox, playoff, sage, pinnacle, prestige, ,a ction packed, pro set, superior pix, gameday, bowman, star pics, classic, pacific, wild card, collector's edge, upper deck, and the branches of the original companies like topps stadium club and Topps Chrome, as well, as fleer ultra, score, donruss each adding special subsets, they oversaturated by a mile with nearly 20 different companies making football cards, and companies like pro set really cranked up the presses and made untold millions upon millions of these cards.

When an new athlete has 18 different rookie cards, then who cares anymore? And other artificially created rare insert cards like silver, gold, platinum, refractors, autographed would be worth more than his rookie anyway. so people got frustrated. Wild card made cards with a 10 stripe, a 100 stripe, a 1000 stripe, and people were suppose to believe that a Brett Favre 1000 stripe is suppose to be worth 1000 times his regular card because it has a stripe on it and suppose to be much rarer? give me a break here,

Many rookie cards of HOF superstars like barry sanders are near worthless, like his 1989 pro set card. There are trillions of them out there.

baseball and other sports did similar things. There no collectible value to hardly anything 1990's and newer, that's the last 20+ years. They ruined it, and now it's just busting packs to find an autograph or game worn patch card.

[Rich Klein]

A small factual point; Mike Gordon and Tom Reid began the Parsiappany show in the summer of 1982 -- not 1981

It's good to see Mike still with us

Rich

[FrankWakefield]

Initially, I just posted that the segment was aired.

We are able to distinguish between new cards that are/were mass printed and old ones that we collect. To some extent we're biased to justify and believe in what we collect. That bias aside, I do think that the market for old cards is not in collapse, but that the market for new cards is not what it used to be, for many reasons.

A card's value really doesn't drive my collecting, I find myself agreeing with John up there hoping that prices of what we collect plummet, so we can buy more stuff.

Over the years I've developed an appreciation for CBS's approach and skill with the news. I still have that. I've not felt the same about Mr. Keteyian's reporting, I'm not sure why they got him, nor why they've kept him. You guys are right that if he's relying on Mr. Mint and David Jamieson's book, then he's starting out in left field, with little hope of making it into the infield.

[71buc]

I was at a Royals Dodgers game yesterday. A pair of six and seven year old fans who sat behind me were pretty knowledgeable about the team. I was impressed. A few innings into the game I walked around the ball park. I stopped and watched the Rangers take BP in the cages and watched Michael Young talk to a group of fans between his rounds in the cage. He actually came out of the cage and signed for the kids and posed for pictures for a good 20 minutes before returning to his routine. He is a very classy guy. We need more like him. I asked a couple kids who received his autograph if they collected cards. They said no. I asked why and they both shrugged their shoulders and said they just like to watch baseball. I went to the team store and bought the two young Royal fans team sets. When I returned to my seat I handed them the cards and they were thrilled. They were happy to have cards of Butler and Gordon. Both boys played with the cards for a few innings and then stuffed them in their back pockets. It did my heart good.

I think the hobby can survive if collectors and the card companies find creative and affordable ways to engage the next generation of fans. I find it telling that baseball appears to be at the height of it's popularity and card companies have not found a way to draw in new collectors. Perhaps the card companies could contract with the players association and provide the players with a gross of cards that could be signed and handed to young autograph seekers at games?

I personally don't worry about the hobby. I have been buying baseball cards and memorabilia for 40 years. My father got me into the hobby when I was 8. I have very eclectic tastes and have collected only what I like without an investors mentality. Due to this the value of my collection has never been a huge concern to me. If the bottom falls out I may finally be able to own things that are not currently in my price range. Unfortunately I have been unable to engage my own son's interest in the hobby. He thinks it's odd that I drive a Kia and could sell my collection to buy a nicer car and refuse to. He's 21 now and I'm certain he will sell it all when he inherits my collection. I see a very nice car in his future. If the Mayans are correct none of it will matter anyway

[CharleyBrown]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I think the hobby can survive if collectors and the card companies find creative and affordable ways to engage the next generation of fans. I find it telling that baseball appears to be at the height of it's popularity and card companies have not found a way to draw in new collectors.

+1

Originally Posted by 71buc

I see a very nice car in his future. If the Mayans are correct none of it will matter anyway

The nice car, though, will depreciate in value as soon as it goes off the lot, and will certainly cost more than its worth in maintenance over the years. :-D

[wonkaticket]

Well let's just hope this happens in the next few weeks with all the upcoming auctions.

[Northviewcats]

I actually believe that the interest in the vintage baseball card market will grow. 1. As long as people love baseball there will be interest in its history. 2. The economy in the United States will improve sooner or later. 3. Collecting old things is fun and with Internet shopping it is easy.

If there is a bigger demand and a limited supply, prices in vintage cards should rise.

Best regards,

Joe

[Texxxx]

Baseball card collecting will never die until the game dies off. I dont see that happening. The amount of people involved and the prices will fluctuate. That is just the nature of collecting anything.

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Good article...and i hate to say it but i kinda agree...what will this hobby look like in 75 years?

you thought it was good article? seriously?

[mark evans]

I suspect that Rosen is correct -- too many other diversions for kids to sustain the hobby (at least as we know it) in the long-run. I should think that the vintage card market, especially rarities, would be the last to feel this effect.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by mark evans

I suspect that Rosen is correct -- too many other diversions for kids to sustain the hobby (at least as we know it) in the long-run. I should think that the vintage card market, especially rarities, would be the last to feel this effect.

But the number of kids will be expanding continuously, so all the baseball card market needs is a steady supply of boys who play baseball. As long as there is little league, there will be baseball cards. Maybe not billions of cards each year, but they will be produced.

And as long as there are middle aged men who are interested in baseball history and (or) who like to relive their own youthful love of baseball, there will always be people who buy and sell vintage baseball cards.

[Exhibitman]

I agree, Mark. What's more, I would expect vintage collectors to skew into the 40s and 50s because those are the peak earning years. It takes disposable income to collect vintage cards; kids just out of school and young adults trying to establish families and homes don't have the play money they will in 10-20 years. And let's not forget the 800# gorilla, the recession, which ripped the crap out of lots of card values and collections.

[Lee17]

It is hard to imagine nobody collecting Baseball Cards in 50-75 years. It really sucks for the children today. I am 31 and from 1988-1994 my friends and I collected Baseball cards and we also had other things to worry about like Nintendo, Sega, Sports, and "girls" too.....BUT we were not paying $300-$500 for a box of Baseball cards. We also couldn't afford the vintage cards, but it really didn't matter because we were worried about Baseball players of our generation and besides the legends we really didn't know too much about Rollie Fingers, Willie McCovey, Lou Brock etc. There was no way our parents were spending that kind of money.

Who knows though, when I finally graduated from college and started my career and finally had some money....I bought all the cards I wanted that I could never afford when i was younger and then started collecting the older stuff. That might be the new cycle for collector's of my generation and later though....wait 8-10 years later to buy the stuff you wanted because it will be worth less, as opposed to the kids from the 50s who had grew up and had to pay 200x more.

[ullmandds]

Bill...I guess I was wasted when I read it...I guess any bb card stuff esp in the news is cool...especially cuz I got to see a young lee behrens in a really queer outfit!!!!!! But ...no...the story was skewed and did not tell much of the real story!

[HercDriver]

So what were the top 10 collections 50 years ago? My grandpa collected marbles and pocket knives. My mom collected stamps. I'm sure my grandpa thought kids would shoot marbles forever...and when was the last kid you saw with a stamp collection? Stamp collecting was never going to die...maybe it hasn't and I just don't see the stamp shows on the weekend...

Enjoy your collection and resign yourself to the fact nobody will care about a PSA 9 1965 Willie Mays in 50 years.

Geno