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#1
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"But it is quite a stretch to say that they missed it on something as significant as the Plank card"
Hi Adam! Welcome to the battle! Does this imply that the Green Cobb is insignificant? or that it is properly numerically graded in your opinion? thanks dan |
#2
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How is putting the number on the Plank card any different than putting a number on strip cards, Bazookas, Oklahoma Today, or Esskay cards? According to Ted all of the Plank Piedmont 150s are hand cut, so this is just another case of a grading company putting a number on a handcut card.
Personally I think all handcut cards should be Authentic, but grading companies have decided to disagree with me. |
#3
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I agree Dan, no hand cut cards should have numbers.
The difference here is that the companies admit the strip cards and such are hand cut because that is the only way they could be cut and were supposed to be cut. The T206 issue is supposed to be factory cut and the company is implying that this one is NOT hand cut. A significant difference I think |
#4
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__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#5
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It would really be nice to have psa's opinion on this as well.....
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#6
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For those who are sure it is trimmed:
SGC is standing behind their grading of this card as much as is humanly possible. So if you are sure it is trimmed, SGC must also realize that. Given that scenario, why would they stick their necks out like that? To date, they have allowed PSA to stand alone on a pedestal with their Wagner 8 debacle. Why would SGC take a chance at climbing up (down?) on that pedestal with them? Just curious what your thoughts are.
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$co++ Forre$+ |
#7
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Not that I am 100% convinced that it is trimmed...nor do I really care as it's not a card I can afford...BUT...has PSA ever really been punished...or taken any kind of hit in any way as a result of their many many bungled grades?
The answer is...NO!!!!! |
#8
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I recall very well that approx. 12 years ago SGC...."was standing behind their grading"....of the T206 Matty (portrait) card with the Red HINDU back, despite the fact that SGC was told it was an impossible front/back combo....and therefore, a FAKE. Subsequently, SGC relented and removed this "re-fronted" Matty card from circulation. Yes, I'm one of those who is very skeptical of this PIEDMONT Plank having been an original factory cut T206. TED Z |
#9
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Can the Plank be the only other $1M+ card in the hobby? Sounds like a climb up. |
#10
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Note that there was another Cobb (Bat Off) in the same submission that was deemed Authentic (likely due to trimming). What did they see in the Bat Off that they missed in the Green? ![]() ![]() |
#11
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That isn't an angle cut at the top left corner, that is a blatant dog ear'd cut. And yes an angle cut would be fine but the bottom edge would need a matching opposite angle cut. This wavey bottom edge on the Green Cobb is flat across. |
#12
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Actually, I could see these 2 being swapped! I could live with the bat off numerically and the Green Cobb is just mind boggling.
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#13
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i agree with you dan...with the top left and lower rt on that cobby as they appear...I believe it's trimmed.
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#14
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I believe SGC should be given the benefit of the doubt on these questionably graded T206's, not just because of their distinction among most pre war collectors of being the most consistent graders of pre war cards, but because they have seen the cards raw, in hand and have carefully examined the edges with the best available lighting, magnification and expertise...I dont see how anyone can be as sure as SGC with regards to the authenticity of the card by just viewing an enlarged scan, the assumed historical production facts not withstanding....Bruce Perry
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#15
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Though I think SGC's consistency has changed after Derek left and I will beg to differ on the Green Cobb You could place that one on the moon and give me a telescope and I could see it is hacked. |
#16
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__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#17
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#18
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Not always true. As far as I can tell, there's nothing wrong with the bottom of this one:
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$co++ Forre$+ Last edited by Runscott; 12-29-2013 at 06:13 PM. |
#19
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Maybe Ted Z or Jim Rivera or Tim Cathey the T206 experts could chime in here but I don't think what you are showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process? dan Last edited by danmckee; 03-22-2012 at 12:19 PM. Reason: . to ? |
#20
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6000+ views and rocking!
This is a kick-ass thread! I see what Bill told me with the Cobb Bat off, that card looks good from the scan and looks like it would have warranted a numerical grade. Very interesting, has anyone looked at the other Authentics? How many look good? |
#21
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As long as we are at it, comments on this one?
__________________
Net 54-- the discussion board where people resent discussions. ![]() My avatar is a sketch by my son who is an art school graduate. Some of his sketches and paintings are at https://www.jamesspaethartwork.com/ |
#22
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my opinion, top and bottom are hacked. But I welcome other opinions and I think we need the larger raw scan so that the holder insert doesn't deceive us at the corners.
John Wonka can you add the raw Magie for us? Thank you Last edited by danmckee; 03-22-2012 at 12:40 PM. |
#23
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I have one point to make in this huge debate. You state above that you don't think what is showing can happen in the factory with what we know of the cutting process. The big point is that you are only drawing assumptions about the cut and not known facts. We have never had access to the factory that actually separated these cards, so how can we ever be sure about Plank, Cobb and Magie? Not trying to stir the pot, just thought I'd ask ![]() mike.ca.ve
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T206's Graded low-mid 219/520 T201's SGC/PSA 2-5 50/50 T202's SGC/PSA 2-5 10/132 1938 Goudey Graded VG range 37/48 |
#24
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I would like to hear opinions about the sgc 84 joe doyle...that's the one i have a genuine interest in.
Last edited by CMIZ5290; 03-22-2012 at 01:28 PM. |
#25
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Hi Mike and thanks for posting. Yes you are correct, I don't know any of this for certain. I do know that handling tobacco cards for years and buying many raw collections that a legit angle cut has always had the opposite angle cut on the other border. That is why I was hoping Jim R or Tim C or Ted Z could comment on what they know of the cutting practice. I may be mistaking but I thought 1 or all of them did some research on that part. Tim C maybe? thanks again for the interesting comments dan |
#26
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I'm not weighing in on whether the Magie, Plank or Cobb are trimmed, although I do have an opinion, but rather just pointing out that not all diamond/diagonal cuts which don't have a matching opposite border, are hand cut or altered. I might mention I have also seen (and once owned) a very nice orange background Tinker E98 which had a wicked diamond cut left border and a straight right border and it sailed through grading with an SGC 40grade as SGC recognized it was a factory miscut. |
#27
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Bringing this one back from the past.
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T206 gallery Last edited by atx840; 03-22-2012 at 11:31 PM. |
#28
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Chris, I didn't realize that it had been roughed up in order to get the numerical grade. That's something that would not have happened prior to the birth of slabbing
![]() I just took the Speaker out and looped the borders very carefully - no problems at all. It's amazing how much better these old cards look without any plastic in the way.
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$co++ Forre$+ |
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