Vintage photographs

drc · #1 03-15-2012, 04:06 PM

I agree. I don't like the 1-10 grading system for photos. There's nothing deficient with editorially used photos that have rough or whatever edges. Collectors trimming photos to get a PSA 10 is a horrible thing. Altering something for the sole reason of $$ is terrible, and the 1-10 grading system gives reason for collectors to do that.

Honestly, no serious photo enthusiast gives a flying f*ck if that photo grades a 10. The 10 stuff is for 1985 Topps Tiffany collectors.

thecatspajamas · #2 03-15-2012, 04:29 PM

I don't want you guys to get me wrong, I am in no way advocating a numeric grading system for photos. I just hope to goodness that the various grading companies at least get the same reaction of disgust expressed here if/when they feel that out as an option.

I could be off in this too, but I get the feeling that there are more newcomers to the photo collecting corner of the hobby these days than ever before. Whether it makes sense or not, oft times collectors will bring "baggage" with them when migrating from one area of collecting to another, which may be as simple as mis-applying terminology, or in my thinking here, a proclivity for encapsulating everything in their collection with a number grade on the flip. Maybe I'm being overly-cautious in my thinking and cooler minds will prevail, but as much as I dislike the idea, it wouldn't surprise me to see it at least tried.

Edited to add: Scott, thanks for the added info/experience. Much more well-written than my own concurrent musings.

Runscott · #3 03-15-2012, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

I don't want you guys to get me wrong, I am in no way advocating a numeric grading system for photos. I just hope to goodness that the various grading companies at least get the same reaction of disgust expressed here if/when they feel that out as an option.

I could be off in this too, but I get the feeling that there are more newcomers to the photo collecting corner of the hobby these days than ever before. Whether it makes sense or not, oft times collectors will bring "baggage" with them when migrating from one area of collecting to another, which may be as simple as mis-applying terminology, or in my thinking here, a proclivity for encapsulating everything in their collection with a number grade on the flip. Maybe I'm being overly-cautious in my thinking and cooler minds will prevail, but as much as I dislike the idea, it wouldn't surprise me to see it at least tried.

Edited to add: Scott, thanks for the added info/experience. Much more well-written than my own concurrent musings.

Thanks Lance - I enjoy your photo musings, as well as most others written here. I realize I'm walking a fine line of acceptance whenever I criticize encapsulation and grading, but that's life. I was collecting photos long before PSA got their mitts into our hobby, so I think I have that right.

Yes, there are plenty of newcomers, but there are still plenty of great photos at reasonable prices. We didn't use to have many people to discuss vintage photos with - I'd rather have more collectors and fewer photos than vice versa. Much more fun, and besides - we're all just renting this stuff.

Jantz · #4 03-16-2012, 01:51 AM

Hi Andy

I'm a rookie photo collector myself and can only echo what other members have said in this thread. Check out David's website, buy the book and read past threads. The knowledge you will gain will be a valuable tool for collecting vintage photos.

Don't rely on "dumb luck" like I did. The first vintage photo I bought was of Larry Doyle taken by Louis Van Oeyen. After some research, I realized that I should have bought a few more photos the dealer had. When I went back to the dealer the next day someone had beat me to the punch. All the other Van Oeyen photos were gone. A simple case of the dealer and I didn't know what he had!

Even if you're like me and can't afford a Conlon or Horner photo, there are still some really cool vintage photos out there to buy/collect.

Hope this helps you

Jantz

drc · #5 03-16-2012, 02:34 AM

George Burke's are affordable and top notch in quality. They're just more plentiful which lowers the price. Amongst other things he shot the photos for the 1933 Goudeys-- and he photographed all the days' stars Ruth to DiMaggio to Ted Williams. The backs of his are stamped Geo. Burke with his his 807 Belmont Ave Chicago address.

Collectors can also go into cabinet cards, panoramas, tintypes and other great stuff.

thecatspajamas · #6 03-16-2012, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

George Burke's are affordable and top notch in quality. They're just more plentiful which lowers the price. Amongst other things he shot the photos for the 1933 Goudeys-- and he photographed all the days' stars Ruth to DiMaggio to Ted Williams. The backs of his are stamped Geo. Burke with his his 807 Belmont Ave Chicago address.

Collectors can also go into cabinet cards, panoramas, tintypes and other great stuff.

I believe the address is 847 Belmont, but yes, I definitely agree that Burke's photos are very affordabe, and cover pretty much every player (even the 1-gamers) to have played in the majors in the 1930's-40's. Many of his images have appeared over and over on cards and elsewhere, from Goudey, Play Ball and National Chicle in the 1930's even up to more modern-day issues from TCMA, Pacific and the like. Fun stuff to find a photo that was used for a pre-war card AND that is actually affordable for a beginning collector!

Frozen in Time · #7 03-16-2012, 05:04 PM

I agree with all the comments posted so far - they will make a big difference in your ability to accurately judge the authenticity of vintage photos as well as enhance your appreciation of this field of collecting.

I would add one additional thing that has proven invaluable to me in becoming familiar with a critical tool for evaluating the age and time window of publication for vintage photos.

Henry Yee_Auctions on Ebay (about 4 times a year) posts hundreds of photos with accurate descriptions and ,more importantly, clear photos of the front and back. Being exposed to this great diversity of different types of stamps and paper captions on the back of photos will serve you well. For example, subtle differences in stamps of the major news services often will allow you to pinpoint a photo to a specific year, for example a United Press photo from 1953 vs 1955.

Whereas, all of these suggestions that have been posted will provide a scaffolding of information - and information is the most important commodity for collecting- your primary goal should be to enjoy the photos.

Good luck.

thekingofclout · #8 03-16-2012, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drc

Honestly, no serious photo enthusiast gives a flying f*ck if that photo grades a 10. The 10 stuff is for 1985 Topps Tiffany collectors.

like

ibuysportsephemera · #9 03-16-2012, 06:41 AM

After collecting and selling mainly vintage sports publications for 25 years, I started collecting photos over the last 2 years. There were a few reasons for this migration. 1) Space...thousands of wire photos fit into a bunch of binders on a book shelf. 2) Price...good bargains can still be had. Even with high end auctions, you still can sneak in and get good value. 3) Uniqueness...The majority of the images are unique. There are no price guides and your own eye can place a value on what you like. This can be helpful with #2 price. However, this also be tricky upon resale. The image that you loved might not appeal to everyone else. 4) Availability... with all of the large archives begin sold or digitized, the sheer volume of what is on the market is amazing. 5) Built in provenance... I particularly love photos that have both the stamp and paper caption. With the exception of some modern reprints (which are easy to identify), older photos with both of these elements can be dated, identified and certainly do not need some third party grading system.

And like many before...DRC's website and the Yee/Fogel book are essential.

Jeff

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