The Irony Of The Autograph Posts On This Forum

[prewarsports]

I have said this before and taken a beating on it but I still stand behind it. If you know what you are doing and are careful, autograph collecting is safer than card collecting. With autographs if you stick with the top dealers/sellers or collect vintage signed album pages still in the books and checks or contracts you are going to be safe 99%++ of the time. You cant say any of that with cards. Trim jobs, restoration, Chemicals used to remove old glues on cards in album pages are so rampant that the top dealers sell this stuff without knowing it all day every day, especially high grade. It all comes down to being smart and educating yourself. Buying a cheap Mantle autograph on ebay is no differnet than buying a "grandaps attic" baseball card. Just my opinion but I have been in the autograph game for a long time now and problems basically dont exist in what I deal with and those people who buy and sell similar items as me.

Rhys Yeakley

[drc]

There are some fine autograph experts on this board, but 1/3 of the the stuff said in those autographs threads is crap, a waste of time to read. Any poster who has an obvious agenda that shapes all his posts and points should be read with a grain of salt the size of San Jose. Some people can find merit in propaganda, but I do not.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by drc

There are some fine autograph experts on this board, but 1/3 of the the stuff said in those autographs threads is crap and obfuscation, a waste of time to read. Any poster who has an obvious agenda that shapes all his posts and points should be read with a grain of salt the size of San Jose. I find no merit in propaganda.

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[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by drc

There are some fine autograph experts on this board, but 1/3 of the the stuff said in those autographs threads is crap and obfuscation, a waste of time to read. Any poster who has an obvious agenda that shapes all his posts and points should be read with a grain of salt the size of San Jose. I find no merit in propaganda posts.

+1

If the aforementioned posters would stick to why this or that auto is bad, I think current and potential future collectors would benefit much more than from knowing which authenticator the poster thinks sucks.

[drc]

Authentication is an objective activity. Any poster who is driven by a subjective agenda, predetermined conclusions or a clear bias is the antithesis of the person should be lecturing others on authentication.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by drc

Authentication is an objective activity. Any poster who is driven by a subjective agenda, predetermined conclusions or a clear bias is the antithesis of the person should be lecturing others on authentication.

Once again, well said David. And if anyone is wondering about David's background regarding Authentication, here is his quick bio...

David Rudd Cycleback is an art historian and forensic scientist specializing in the areas of authenticity and cognition. He is the photography advisor for Beckett Media, has advised and examined artifacts for major auction houses and was a writer for the Encyclopedia of Nineteenth-Century Photography, the standard academic reference. His books include Judging the Authenticity of Photographs, Judging the Authenticity of Prints by the Masters, Forensic Light: A Beginner's Guide and Conceits: Human Cognition and Perception. He has been cited by the Australian National Archives, Indiana Historical Society, York University, Encyclopedia Britanica, University of Wisconsin (The Scout Project), Maine Antiques Digest, PBS, University of Arkansas' Criminal Justice Institute, Bloomberg and Sydney University (Business of Art).

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I have said this before and taken a beating on it but I still stand behind it. If you know what you are doing and are careful, autograph collecting is safer than card collecting. With autographs if you stick with the top dealers/sellers or collect vintage signed album pages still in the books and checks or contracts you are going to be safe 99%++ of the time...

I agree. Autograph collecting can be very rewarding, fun and safe the vast majority of the time. For those of us -- I'm including myself in this category -- who collect the typical Mantle, Williams, DiMaggio, Koufax type material, with a little homework, networking and common sense you can avoid fakes.

When you wade into the deep end of the pool with super rare and expensive material, the risks increase exponentially. There are master forgers who can fool even the experts on occasion. But, this would be the case with any high end collectible where big bucks come into play.

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I agree. Autograph collecting can be very rewarding, fun and safe the vast majority of the time. For those of us -- I'm including myself in this category -- who collect the typical Mantle, Williams, DiMaggio, Koufax type material, with a little homework, networking and common sense you can avoid fakes.

When you wade into the deep end of the pool with super rare and expensive material, the risks increase exponentially. There are master forgers who can fool even the experts on occasion. But, this would be the case with any high end collectible where big bucks come into play.

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[RichardSimon]

Speaking from personal experience I can say that I do feel the autograph market is not attracting new collectors.
Years ago, it would be easy to sell the $10-$50 Hall of Fame autographs, often selling many at one time and it became obvious that I was dealing with a relatively new collector. The buyers of Coveleski, Dickey, Appling, Averill, Chandler, Doerr, Gehringer, etc. are now few and far between.
I still successfully sell quite a bit of material but rarely see the type of buyer that I saw 5-10 years ago.
I think the negative publicity (not necessarily here on 54) that has been in newspapers and TV reports has definitely hurt the hobby.
In addition the casual collector, who may become a serious collector, might have been burned on his first purchase. He might have wondered into one of those mall stores, estate sales, etc. and been fooled by a fancy and serious looking COA and that person is then lost to the hobby, if he discovers what he has bought.
I will repeat what I have said many times before, stay with the dealers that have established reputations as being honest and knowledgable and don't assume that because an item has an alphabet company COA that it is necessarily authentic. That fact has already been proven here many times from lower level items bought on ebay to multi thousand dollar items bought from big time auction houses.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Speaking from personal experience I can say that I do feel the autograph market is not attracting new collectors.
Years ago, it would be easy to sell the $10-$50 Hall of Fame autographs, often selling many at one time and it became obvious that I was dealing with a relatively new collector. The buyers of Coveleski, Dickey, Appling, Averill, Chandler, Doerr, Gehringer, etc. are now few and far between.
I still successfully sell quite a bit of material but rarely see the type of buyer that I saw 5-10 years ago.

I can't help think the changing dynamics of the hobby may be at work here. 15 - 20 years ago vintage dealers were not competing for collector dollars with high priced Steiners, etc., etc. The modern players of that era were typically not signing for big bucks. Now, when a collector blows his entire budget on a Steiner Jeter, nothing is left over for the vintage material.

Just a thought...

[chaddurbin]

i am definitely scared, but i try to do my homework whether it be a honus wagner or a $2 steve avery signature...and i pass on stuff pretty quick if i'm uncomfortable with it.

having said all that i don't see myself buying a high end auto like ruth mathewson etc no matter how many loas it comes with...and that's directly because of this board.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

i am definitely scared, but i try to do my homework whether it be a honus wagner or a $2 steve avery signature...and i pass on stuff pretty quick if i'm uncomfortable with it.

having said all that i don't see myself buying a high end auto like ruth mathewson etc no matter how many loas it comes with...and that's directly because of this board.

There are ways of getting authentic ones and not having to really consider LOA's or making sure you buy from the forum-approved shortlist (sentence one of your post).

[Bilko G]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I can't help think the changing dynamics of the hobby may be at work here. 15 - 20 years ago vintage dealers were not competing for collector dollars with high priced Steiners, etc., etc. The modern players of that era were typically not signing for big bucks. Now, when a collector blows his entire budget on a Steiner Jeter, nothing is left over for the vintage material.

Just a thought...

yeah that is definitely a possibility and also a lot of the "new" autograph collectors, guys in their early 20s or early 30's are buying the more modern players that they grew up watching and the players that they are watching today. There is also a whole different area of autograph collectors that don't really care about sports at all and they are more into Entertainment/Celebrity/Music Etc. autographs.