T206 upside down backs "should they be on the back run?"

[mrvster]

Since im stoked about winning my third of the sweet cap 460 fact 30 sweeney yellow brown printers scrap "alternative"back from Leon and Scott ....id love to see some sister cards off the same sheet/sheets...

I have been discussing the rarity of them also, they are a "new" or alternative back just being realized thanks to collectors like JIM RIVERA who are keen enuf to figure it out....

So i have seen a few over the years and would venture to guess 50-100(excluding dan mckees 50 examples!) + examples exist of this back.... would anyone venture a guess??

I have 3..... Matty ( dark cap THANKS MARTIN NEAL)...Konetchy glove low(THANKS CRAIG DIAMOND)......and now sweeney (THANKS LEON AND SCOTT)...


i have seen Davis, seymour, chance, chase, ect ect....usually there are twins or triplets, but not more than lets say 4 or 5....


How many do you think are out there????????


and if u have one, post a scan.....

[wonkaticket]

Sub set is cool idea, for me Brown Lenox is factory cut and was issued as far as we know so I think if you want a master set of backs that includes BL460 and Brown Lenox....but what the hell do I know i'm one of the only guys who doesn't have a website on T206's.

John

[mrvster]

Great points!!

but brown lenox is on there

that is just a color variation

btw Leon or moderator, i accidentally put my yellow / brown in this thread, can u put a seperate post???im lazy and dont feel like re typing

[mrvster]

Great point!!

i say anything factory cut should be on the main list including brown lenox, red hindu ect and even THE FACTORY CUT upside downs(like your engle)...


then a Subset- i vote anything NOT factory cut...


in scarcity..

cobb

Brown om


proof


Blank back

front ghost

obverse ghost

or something to this effect.....just playing around..



i doubt cobb was issued at all....so it could be classified here and put the cobb issue to rest


man im going to get a load of crap for this one!!!LOL

[Leon]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Great points!!



btw Leon or moderator, i accidentally put my yellow / brown in this thread, can u put a seperate post???im lazy and dont feel like re typing

I see the card and can help but not sure what you want done? Keep going Johnny, you can rewrite the books yourself!!

[Blitzu]

Originally Posted by mrvster

Great points!!

but brown lenox is on there

that is just a color variation

btw Leon or moderator, i accidentally put my yellow / brown in this thread, can u put a seperate post???im lazy and dont feel like re typing

I consider the brown OM and brown Lenox as substantive since they are unique in color from everything else, plus were done at the factory (not a chemical spill, etc). Just like the apple green sovereign is considered to be unique on the list. An upside down card has no unique features from anything else on the list depending on his you hold it. This is just my opinion, and down for considering others opinions.

Jared

[mrvster]

Jared.....


i beleive the brown om should be on a "sub-set" list, cause those cards are printer scraps, hand cut and NOT distributed in packs....

Cobb was prob a sales promotion or distributed in tins in an extremely limited/promotion/sales sample ect......

IRONICALLY- most upside down backs were errors and were printed at the factory, factory cut, and distributed in actual packs...some upside down backs(like an om i own) are actually printer scrap(not to be confusing), and are really hand cut cards like Chris b's 4 back up om, or Jamie B.'s sister upside down om off prob the same sl sheet


BROWN LENOX- intentionally printed like red hindy......

SO- brown lenox is kinda like an upside down BACK !!!

THEY ARE BOTH TECHNICALLY FACTORY CUT BACKS!!

why is one on the list and not the other?????????????????????




i think 2 back lists may solve these issues....



PACK DISTRIBUTED / NON ISSUED:


just a thought.........






pack distributed:





1)LENOX BROWN

2)BROADLEAF 460

3)UPSIDE DOWN BACK(can be any FACTORY CUT BACK) om, piedy ect(these can follow traditional back scarcities to determine rarities instead of re-listing)


3)UZIT

4)DRUM

5) HINDU RED

6)LENOX

7)BL 350(CLOSE W/ CB)

8) CAROLINA B(CLOSE W BL)

9) PIEDY 42

10)AB 460


then the rest.......


NON ISSUED:

1) TY COBB

2)BROWN OM

3)GHOST FRONT

4)GHOST BACK

5) NO NAME(TRUE NO NAME)

ECT ECT


Thoughts?????????????????????????????????????

[Blitzu]

Mrvster,

I can see your point and to a degree understand that maybe a non issued list vs a issued list could be contrived. Although, my qualifications for the current list were never solely about being factory issued or not. The basis for the list was being substantially unique to all the rest (even color variations, purposeful or not). That brings me back to my point that the upside down backs or upside down fronts are not unique in any other way from any current card already on the list. That's why they don't belong and this is why the browns, cobbs and blanks are currently on that list. They are all unique from any other known back.

Also, I'll say it one more time, who's to say the fronts weren't printed upside down on those?

[E93]

The upside down back is an error. The others are not.
JimB

P.S. The Cobb back does not appear to be a point of sale hand out promotion. Since half of the know examples have tobacco staining, it is fair to presume they were packaged with the tobacco/cigarettes. Ads dating from Feb/March 1910 advertising the brand suggest it came out two years before the tins that have tax stamps dating to 1912. My guess is the tins are a different brand from the "Ty Cobb: King of the Smoking Tobacco World" brand. I have an article that is going to be on T206resource.com soon that goes into more detail on these issues.