Vintage Tickets - 1895 Omahogs Baseball - Value & Grading Advice Requested...

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

As a collector, I can appreciate having a book intact. But from a business and benefit to the hobby perspective I would have sold one book in a major auction, then broke the other up and sold them as singles. This would accomplish two things:

1st It would maximize generation of cash. There is no way these would fail to bring $200-$500 each (more than 40 collectors would want these) and who knows what the book would bring.

2nd This way you would be putting really really rare and nice pieces in the hands of far more collectors.

Why should the one big spender get all the goods? It's like when you see all five spalding trophies sell in a lot. They NEVER bring close to what they would have sold for as singles, and now the collector who just wants to own one (and only has the resources to buy one) is left out. I love knowing that someone who really appreciates a piece has an opportunity to acquire it without breaking the bank.

One thing he should have done was leave ONE ticket in the book he broke up. That piece alone would go for significantly more than any single out of the book.

One big difference between the trophy lot scenario you're presenting and these ticket books is that you wouldn't have to break the trophies into pieces to sell them separately. The idea that breaking something up so that more collectors can get a piece of the action may make sense monetarily, but I think it's rarely "good for the hobby." I'm not talking about breaking up a card set or piecing out a trophy or pin or whatever else collection of individual items. I'm referring more to the cutting up an uncut card sheet, opening an old pack of cards, removing something from a blister pack, chopping up a jersey/bat/ball, etc. Actions that cannot be undone.

With the case of this ticket book, you can argue whether it makes sense monetarily, or whether it really matters because the tickets were intended to be removed anyway, or how many more people get to enjoy the tickets now that they are not bound in their original booklet. What you cannot do, however, is return them to their original state. You can reassemble a collection of anything, but this is one collectible that cannot be put back together.

Would I have done the same thing if I were in the owner's shoes? I honestly can't say for sure one way or the other, and I'm sure personal finances would weigh heavily on that decision. Being a collector at heart though, making that decision to break up the book would sadden me, even if it did make the most monetary sense.

[mjkm90]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

One big difference between the trophy lot scenario you're presenting and these ticket books is that you wouldn't have to break the trophies into pieces to sell them separately. The idea that breaking something up so that more collectors can get a piece of the action may make sense monetarily, but I think it's rarely "good for the hobby." I'm not talking about breaking up a card set or piecing out a trophy or pin or whatever else collection of individual items. I'm referring more to the cutting up an uncut card sheet, opening an old pack of cards, removing something from a blister pack, chopping up a jersey/bat/ball, etc. Actions that cannot be undone.

With the case of this ticket book, you can argue whether it makes sense monetarily, or whether it really matters because the tickets were intended to be removed anyway, or how many more people get to enjoy the tickets now that they are not bound in their original booklet. What you cannot do, however, is return them to their original state. You can reassemble a collection of anything, but this is one collectible that cannot be put back together.

Would I have done the same thing if I were in the owner's shoes? I honestly can't say for sure one way or the other, and I'm sure personal finances would weigh heavily on that decision. Being a collector at heart though, making that decision to break up the book would sadden me, even if it did make the most monetary sense.

Think of it this way. If he didn't break up the book, only two people on the planet could have an example of this piece and they would likely only look at one ticket, the front one when they display it. The other 39 would probably never be seen again. This way 41 people can enjoy the tickets.

Lance perhaps I didn't make my point clearly with my initial post. Your comparison with smashing trophies and cutting up jerseys is an entirely different kettle of fish and not at all what I trying to communicate. The practice of destroying something and selling off bits that look NOTHING like the original is horrible. My analogy was all about collectors having an opportunity to enjoy a rare piece of memorabilia. If he found a box of tickets already detached we wouldn't be lamenting the fact that they weren't in the original book. We would all be celbrating the "find" and lining up to buy them (if the asking price wasn't completely INSANE like what he is asking). If he found a box of cut up jersey bits or smashed trophies we would be sad. See the difference Lance?

I completely see the point regarding keeping it original, I'm just offering a potential upside to the collecting community as a whole.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by mjkm90

Lance perhaps I didn't make my point clearly with my initial post. Your comparison with smashing trophies and cutting up jerseys is an entirely different kettle of fish and not at all what I trying to communicate. The practice of destroying something and selling off bits that look NOTHING like the original is horrible. My analogy was all about collectors having an opportunity to enjoy a rare piece of memorabilia. If he found a box of tickets already detached we wouldn't be lamenting the fact that they weren't in the original book. We would all be celbrating the "find" and lining up to buy them (if the asking price wasn't completely INSANE like what he is asking). If he found a box of cut up jersey bits or smashed trophies we would be sad. See the difference Lance?

Yes, I do see a difference between cutting up a jersey and parting out the ticket book. I also see a difference between the ticket book and splitting up a trophy collection. To me, the ticket book is somewhere in the middle.

Part of the attraction to me of items like this is the wonder I feel that the tickets were not torn out of the books back in the day, and have survived intact to the present day despite the original intent of their manufacture being to have been torn out of the book and used by attendees of the games. It's the same feeling I would have about an unopened pack of 1952 Topps cards, action figures still in their original package, a case of vintage baseballs sealed in their original boxes, etc etc etc. Would any of those things be enjoyable out of their original packaging or if they had been used as intended by their respective manufacturers? Sure. But to me, there is a certain mystique that comes with something that was once meant to be used and thrown away surviving for over 100 years completely intact and unaltered from its original state.

You are clearly taking the stance that the more people that can enjoy something the better, which is a valid viewpoint, but doesn't diminish the sadness that those who would prefer to see the item intact feel when they hear of it being broken up like this. To some, knowing that a bit of history exists wholly intact, whether it's in our own collection or not, is more satisfying than owning a piece of it.

[mjkm90]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

Yes, I do see a difference between cutting up a jersey and parting out the ticket book. I also see a difference between the ticket book and splitting up a trophy collection. To me, the ticket book is somewhere in the middle.

Part of the attraction to me of items like this is the wonder I feel that the tickets were not torn out of the books back in the day, and have survived intact to the present day despite the original intent of their manufacture being to have been torn out of the book and used by attendees of the games. It's the same feeling I would have about an unopened pack of 1952 Topps cards, action figures still in their original package, a case of vintage baseballs sealed in their original boxes, etc etc etc. Would any of those things be enjoyable out of their original packaging or if they had been used as intended by their respective manufacturers? Sure. But to me, there is a certain mystique that comes with something that was once meant to be used and thrown away surviving for over 100 years completely intact and unaltered from its original state.

You are clearly taking the stance that the more people that can enjoy something the better, which is a valid viewpoint, but doesn't diminish the sadness that those who would prefer to see the item intact feel when they hear of it being broken up like this. To some, knowing that a bit of history exists wholly intact, whether it's in our own collection or not, is more satisfying than owning a piece of it.

Good points Lance. Wow...we got a lot of mileage out of this post didn't we

[bigfanNY]

Well I just read this thread and went to the bay to look at the competition and tickets are now listed at $25 each which I think is more than fair. I purchased one and will update you when it arrives. I do not think I will have it graded it looks just fine the at it is.
Regards
Jonathan

[Scott Garner]

Jonathan,
Are you sure you don't want to spend $50 to grade a $25 ticket?
That sounds reasonable to me....

[nebboy]

I always am looking for Omaha Baseball items so from the beginning of this thread/find I wanted at least one of these tickets. I just got 2 for just $21 ea. Happy to add them to my collection.

[nebboy]

Just a quick search showed different ticket books number as follows:

# 75-full
# 76-full
# 77-full
# 89-sold full now singles
# 91-full
# 93-sold full now singles
# 100-full

So there may be as many as 25 full books from this find (maybe) if you have a ticket or book with a different number let me know and I'll update this list.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

One big difference between the trophy lot scenario you're presenting and these ticket books is that you wouldn't have to break the trophies into pieces to sell them separately. The idea that breaking something up so that more collectors can get a piece of the action may make sense monetarily, but I think it's rarely "good for the hobby." I'm not talking about breaking up a card set or piecing out a trophy or pin or whatever else collection of individual items. I'm referring more to the cutting up an uncut card sheet, opening an old pack of cards, removing something from a blister pack, chopping up a jersey/bat/ball, etc. Actions that cannot be undone.

With the case of this ticket book, you can argue whether it makes sense monetarily, or whether it really matters because the tickets were intended to be removed anyway, or how many more people get to enjoy the tickets now that they are not bound in their original booklet. What you cannot do, however, is return them to their original state. You can reassemble a collection of anything, but this is one collectible that cannot be put back together.

Would I have done the same thing if I were in the owner's shoes? I honestly can't say for sure one way or the other, and I'm sure personal finances would weigh heavily on that decision. Being a collector at heart though, making that decision to break up the book would sadden me, even if it did make the most monetary sense.

Lance,
Sorry but this hasnt been a hobby now for over 20 years. If there is money to be made somewhere somehow it will be done. Fake cards,autographs,jerseys,you name it. At least this isnt an attempt at that. It from my stand point yes a way to make money. (still yet to be proven) Have to sell them first. But an honest attempt. Still has one full book that Alex says isnt going to be broken up,so it still can be seen if an intact booklet is more valuabe than the broken up booklet. Either way good for collectors and good for them being found and put back in circulation.

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Lance,
Sorry but this hasnt been a hobby now for over 20 years. If there is money to be made somewhere somehow it will be done. Fake cards,autographs,jerseys,you name it. At least this isnt an attempt at that. It from my stand point yes a way to make money. (still yet to be proven) Have to sell them first. But an honest attempt. Still has one full book that Alex says isnt going to be broken up,so it still can be seen if an intact booklet is more valuabe than the broken up booklet. Either way good for collectors and good for them being found and put back in circulation.

If it's not a hobby any more (and there are many, many collectors who would dispute that), I think you've pretty much summarized why.

I've said my piece. No more opining, gotta get back to WORK

[bijoem]

just reading through this thread for the first time.

scratching my head.


why would anyone rip out tickets from a beautiful clean book?
wow!

[slidekellyslide]

There are at least four of these booklets from the original find...I talked to the guy who found them today at an auction. When I told him I knew of three he told me there are "at least four" and he smiled. I think there are more of them.

[batsballsbases]

Dan,
If there are really that many now around,and like you say there could be more ,I start to find it hard graded or un graded that the market will be able to support more than 100 dollars for a ticket. Like I stated in the above posts put a fair price on them sell them and move on to the next deal.

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Dan,
If there are really that many now around,and like you say there could be more ,I start to find it hard graded or un graded that the market will be able to support more than 100 dollars for a ticket. Like I stated in the above posts put a fair price on them sell them and move on to the next deal.

I'm a buyer for one of the full tickets at $100....