Vintage Tickets - 1895 Omahogs Baseball - Value & Grading Advice Requested...

[barrysloate]

Thanks.

[RichardSimon]

Don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

[smotan_02]

If you had the ticket for $750 BIN OBO, you may get a better sense of the true value. I would maybe offer you $200 with that BIN, but would not offer you $200 with a $10K bin. Of course, you may get lucky and find the one person willing to pay $750 or more.

Now the real question...are you lucky enough to find two people willing to pay?

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by smotan_02

If you had the ticket for $750 BIN OBO, you may get a better sense of the true value. I would maybe offer you $200 with that BIN, but would not offer you $200 with a $10K bin. Of course, you may get lucky and find the one person willing to pay $750 or more.

Now the real question...are you lucky enough to find two people willing to pay?

I guess that is the $10k question.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

Maybe he is friends with himself?


.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe he is friends with himself?


.

A local collector and I are in on them together.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe he is friends with himself?


.

I know the guy who really owns these tickets..his name is Ed. I do not know this poster, but I do know that he lists stuff all the time for Ed. I talked to him at the antique show this weekend and he told me that he tore a booklet up and sent them to PSA. I was disappointed to hear this, but it's not my book.

I also know that there is at least one more booklet out there.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

I know the guy who really owns these tickets..his name is Ed. I do not know this poster, but I do know that he lists stuff all the time for Ed. I talked to him at the antique show this weekend and he told me that he tore a booklet up and sent them to PSA. I was disappointed to hear this, but it's not my book.

I also know that there is at least one more booklet out there.

Diving in here on this post. I have thick skin, but want to challenge your information.

-Correct on the status of other booklet; we bought it at the same time as we sent the tickets into PSA for grading. The 2nd booklet is intact and in better condition than the booklet we split up. There is no intention to split the 2nd book up.

-Correct on, "I do not know this poster." I have never met you and have no interest in antiquities, so I will probably never meet you.

-Incorrect on my listing activities. Outside of these tickets (which is a joint venture), I have never listed anything for Ed on any auction site or other market. I don't do consignments nor list other individuals' items for any reason. I have assisted Ed many times in card grading with regard to PSA and BGS order submissions (piggy backing on my specials) and appraisals of modern memorabilia he finds at random. Additionally, I have assisted him in the authentication of rare items and many autographs.

-Incorrect on ownership status. Ed had external financing from other parties during the purchases and grading; these parties have possession of the graded tickets and are charged with seeking the return on the investment. His money did not buy all of the tickets nor pay for grading. However, he does have a nice investment here with others and did work hard to buy the tickets. Also, he did not send the tickets into PSA for grading. He does not have a PSA account (though one is not required) and did not pay for the grading fees.

-Not trying to play, "I know more than you," but I wanted to set the record straight. Ed is on vacation at the moment (you probably know where). If you have concerns about my status in this venture or my posts, PM me and I shall give you my cell to talk it over.

[meatloaf]

Currently working with Lelands and Legendary to try to find an auction home for the tickets. Thanks to the forum members for this advice.

[slidekellyslide]

Alex, I only know what Ed tells me...I may have you mixed up with some other guy that lists for him on ebay though. He is constantly wheeling and dealing. And I do know for a fact there were at least three booklets floating around when these were first found...I would not be surprised if more were found...I know the guy that found them is out at the Waverly auction almost every week. I could just ask him, but I'm not sure he'd tell me.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by richardsimon

don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

+1000

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by GrayGhost

+1000

+1 Yikes!

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Don't ya just love a guy who has made 20 or so posts, most offering sale items, none of which really gave advice, who comes on the board, asks for advice and then totally ignores the advice and destroys a true rarity.
Also tends to cast a cloud over the story of "doing this for a friend."

Richard,
In all fairness dont autograph guys take documents and autograph pages and cut them up? (and Im not saying thats right) Isnt that destroying little pieces of history also?
Food for thought also here is he has stated that he had 2 books of tickets wouldnt that now make the other booklet more valuable?

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Richard,
In all fairness dont autograph guys take documents and autograph pages and cut them up? (and Im not saying thats right) Isnt that destroying little pieces of history also?
Food for thought also here is he has stated that he had 2 books of tickets wouldnt that now make the other booklet more valuable?

The only people I know now who take documents and cut them up are the imbecilic and greedy card companies. Some dealers will cut up an autograph page to separate the autographs and though I don't do something like that myself I don't think it is as egregious as what the card companies are doing.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

The only people I know now who take documents and cut them up are the imbecilic and greedy card companies. Some dealers will cut up an autograph page to separate the autographs and though I don't do something like that myself I don't think it is as egregious as what the card companies are doing.

I agree with that Richard.
As for the tickets to me at least Alex (and I dont know him at all) in my opinion will end up making at least 22 possible people happy instead of one if he left the book intact. Remember there is still one complete book intact that we know of. And who is to say that if he did sell the book intact that the person who bought it wouldnt do the exact same thing that he is doing! In my opinion I dont think having them graded will make any difference in price being a 6 or an 8 or a 10. The tickets are what they are,and I really have no problem in what he did. Others may disagree but how many times have we all seen great collections broken up! Leon as a type collector wouldnt you agree I would rather have one of the tickets than have to try and buy the whole book and maybe not get it at all. Just my thoughts.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

I agree with that Richard.
As for the tickets to me at least Alex (and I dont know him at all) in my opinion will end up making at least 22 possible people happy instead of one if he left the book intact. Remember there is still one complete book intact that we know of. And who is to say that if he did sell the book intact that the person who bought it wouldnt do the exact same thing that he is doing! In my opinion I dont think having them graded will make any difference in price being a 6 or an 8 or a 10. The tickets are what they are,and I really have no problem in what he did. Others may disagree but how mant times have we all seen great collections broken up! Leon as a type collector wouldnt you agree I would rather have one of the tickets than have to try and buy the whole book and maybe not get it at all. Just my thoughts.

Yes and no, Al. I guess since he has another whole book it's not so bad. However, that being said, I have had a lot of uncut pre-war strips, of which there are plenty more of,......and I know cutting them up and grading them I could have got more money for them, but I could just never do it. I don't know what it is but I just can't cut up these 50-125 yrs old pieces of history. Now, I have had a few really crappy looking scrapbooks with fairly valuable cards or stamps in them and those I have cut up. But the scrapbooks were really bad looking and rotting. They had no aesthetic or historical value. For those kinds of things I have no issue cutting them up, but for these whole, nice looking treasures, I just can't bring myself to do it.

[batsballsbases]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yes and no, Al. I guess since he has another whole book it's not so bad. However, that being said, I have had a lot of uncut pre-war strips, of which there are plenty more of,......and I know cutting them up and grading them I could have got more money for them, but I could just never do it. I don't know what it is but I just can't cut up these 50-125 yrs old pieces of history. Now, I have had a few really crappy looking scrapbooks with fairly valuable cards or stamps in them and those I have cut up. But the scrapbooks were really bad looking and rotting. They had no aesthetic or historical value. For those kinds of things I have no issue cutting them up, but for these whole, nice looking treasures, I just can't bring myself to do it.

Leon,
I would agree with you on the strip cards. Cards in general on sheets I myself wouldnt cut up. Funny there is another post about to cut up or not cut up that Bowman card sheets. (See I wouldnt either) but as for these tickets they were meant to be sold out of the book. Arguement is Alex didnt have to tell us that they were in a booklet. Like i said up one of my upper posts they could have been loose, and what if he had said I have all of the tickets from a booklet (loose) and I still have the booklet also that they came in. Would have been a different story. To me I would rather own one than none in this case. Like I said just my feelings!

[cubsguy1969]

Not to hijack the thread (I can start a new one, if that's better), but what about old autograph books? Someone mentioned it earlier, I think. But what's the general opinion on cutting those up?

I found a really neat autograph book at an estate sale that contains mostly boxers. It dates to the 1940s and 1950s and has 70 to 80 signatures in it, including Joe Louis and Rocky Marciano, along with Marcel Cerdan, the boxer killed in the plane crash who was Edith Piaf's lover. (Apparently, a fairly rare signature.) Trouble is, it also has some basketball signatures, and even an old Bob Feller. So different collectors would be interested in different signatures.

Would people go nuts if I cut it up and sold the signatures individually? Each signature is on a separate page and the owner -- who I"m guessing stood outside Madison Square Garden over and over through the years -- wrote a little commentary about each boxer/player on the back of the page. It's neat to read his opinions on the guys. The book does have some historical value/charm as a piece, but in the end, I'd like to maximize my money. I'm torn (so to speak) about tearing it up. What are the various opinions on this practice? I know it's done all the time.
Thanks.
Rob

[Scott Garner]

Originally Posted by Leon

Yes and no, Al. I guess since he has another whole book it's not so bad. However, that being said, I have had a lot of uncut pre-war strips, of which there are plenty more of,......and I know cutting them up and grading them I could have got more money for them, but I could just never do it. I don't know what it is but I just can't cut up these 50-125 yrs old pieces of history. Now, I have had a few really crappy looking scrapbooks with fairly valuable cards or stamps in them and those I have cut up. But the scrapbooks were really bad looking and rotting. They had no aesthetic or historical value. For those kinds of things I have no issue cutting them up, but for these whole, nice looking treasures, I just can't bring myself to do it.

+1 Leon

[batsballsbases]

Meatloaf,
As a business man I can totally understand what you are trying to do. I guess we have to look at it as if we were in your shoes. Taking away the collector part of the equation(that is in most of us on this board) and looking at it more as a monitary model. But I guess the difference with me is what would be a fair price for the tickets. I dont believe 10,000 is that number. As most of the members have stated with your grading costs 250-600 at the max end? You said yourself your friend paid 400 for the book of 22 tickets. That comes to 18.18 each. Regardless of the fact of breaking up the book (you could have come on and told us that you found 22 loose tickets really doesnt matter) As a business man if you sold all 22 at lets say 300 each thats 6600 dollars. 500 would be 11,000. In this economy that would be a excellent return on your money. And also knowing that you have another book. Maybe you should have kept that info to yourself for awhile. But bottom line is I think you are getting caught up in the moment and not looking at it in real terms. either way once you pass you lets say 1000 (cost of the book and grading costs) you still stand to make a nice profit. Good luck with your endevor but dont be surprised if your lofty numbers are just that .

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Meatloaf,
As a business man I can totally understand what you are trying to do. I guess we have to look at it as if we were in your shoes. Taking away the collector part of the equation(that is in most of us on this board) and looking at it more as a monitary model. But I guess the difference with me is what would be a fair price for the tickets. I dont believe 10,000 is that number. As most of the members have stated with your grading costs 250-600 at the max end? You said yourself your friend paid 400 for the book of 22 tickets. That comes to 18.18 each. Regardless of the fact of breaking up the book (you could have come on and told us that you found 22 loose tickets really doesnt matter) As a business man if you sold all 22 at lets say 300 each thats 6600 dollars. 500 would be 11,000. In this economy that would be a excellent return on your money. And also knowing that you have another book. Maybe you should have kept that info to yourself for awhile. But bottom line is I think you are getting caught up in the moment and not looking at it in real terms. either way once you pass you lets say 1000 (cost of the book and grading costs) you still stand to make a nice profit. Good luck with your endevor but dont be surprised if your lofty numbers are just that .

Thanks for the solid advice. I got nothing to hide. I paid what I paid. many good points here. Thank you.

It appears I have offended the crowd on these boards. I shall just step away and move on. Thank you for your words. Semper Fi

[batsballsbases]

Alex,
Stick around and dont worry about offending anyone here. Believe me when it comes to questions like yours around here you must have a thick skin . When there is blood in the water sharks tend to bite a little around here!

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Alex,
Stick around and dont worry about offending anyone here. Believe me when it comes to questions like yours around here you must have a thick skin . When there is blood in the water sharks tend to bite a little around here!

Thanks, Al. I just don't like stirring the pot. I love the words. Very insightful. I am not a vintage collector. I do mostly modern autos. I actually don't collect much anymore. I am in the military and focus on my work. I am selling off my collection in order to reinvest into my home (NE) and cabin (NC). However, I go in on investment opportunities with buddies from time to time, such as this.

Alex

[batsballsbases]

Alex,
No problem. You came on and asked for advice. (I guess thats where some people have a problem) You deceided not to take it and break up the book. (Thats fine its yours to do what you wish with) Who are we to judge. If you make 20,000 or 2000 you made the choice and now stick with it. You might want to try an auction house with a few and see where it goes,might get lucky but to me as a business model put a fair price on them sell 20 keep 2 and take the profit and do another deal.

[meatloaf]

Originally Posted by batsballsbases

Alex,
No problem. You came on and asked for advice. (I guess thats where some people have a problem) You deceided not to take it and break up the book. (Thats fine its yours to do what you wish with) Who are we to judge. If you make 20,000 or 2000 you made the choice and now stick with it. You might want to try an auction house with a few and see where it goes,might get lucky but to me as a business model put a fair price on them sell 20 keep 2 and take the profit and do another deal.

Yeah, I am looking at Probstein123, Memory Lane, REA, Heritage, etc. I want to make sure it is worth it before committing. I need to do more investigation.

Any recommendations for vintage auctions houses that have a combination of the following: high hammer prices, low consignment % or fees, and quick/painless payment?

Alex