Hhhmmm, I wonder what happened to autographalert?

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

No, milquetoast and gentle are my own wordings. actually i agree with you. i was referring to what it would take for others to see it as a mainstream or reputable site, not what an actual mainstream, reputable tpa criticism site would entail. but anytime anyone digs deep and really critiques tpa's. it will instantly be known as a troublemaker site. You can't be friends of these tpa's or try to do them a favor by helping them get better when they don't want to do so and they just want you to go away.

any credible, or mainstream critiquing site of a tpa will not be considered such on day one that they post their first critique.

it will be instantly bashed as being meanspirited, wrongheaded, mean, troublemaker, etc. by the people that don't want anything to change.

so there really is not going to be any site that is known as the reputable criticism site of TPA's, because even the people here that love and defend TPA's will call it

'bashing' or my favorite "cherrypicking"

apologies from me. i didnt want to take any words you said and transfer them to my own and put words in anyone elses mouth.

I loved to read the site except the constant "Anti Semite" crap ships sailed so long ago it hurts. The guy who wrote the majority of that stuff was a one sided moron. What we need is a blog like Autograph Alert that speaks to the collector regarding forgeries in general, not a one wayed JSA &PSA BASHING, like is so fashionable by some. That's where the autograph industry has missed the boat IMHO. TPA & FDE ARE HUGE problems..BOTH of them have issues. FDE's with Authenticating everything like a rubberstamp machine and 3rd party alphabets not learning from their mistakes and refusing to change some of their mis-directed ways.

Why don't you start one Travis and we'll follow, providing it's not a ONE-WAY bashing drill like has been going on here and on other blogs. How about a serious blog where ALL forgeries can be addressed instead of the us vs them mentality. You have the great gift of writing. You can use it to make the Autograph Industry you enjoy a better place if you get on board. If you could come out against "all forgeries", it would be a big step in the right direction.

The other Autograph blog "ANL" is a one way ticket to nowhere where this VanderDopen babbles among himself for 10-15 posts in a row with an ax to grind as does every other misfit on it. It's just a COMPLETE JOKE...

Everyone put down the ax and do something AGAINST ALL FORGERIES. These 3rd party morons are going to kill their own business, as they don't listen to anyone anyway and their mistakes are growing by the day. We want to see that, but we want to see people who are bashing their mistakes passionate about all forgeries PERIOD.....Yes including FDE's which have RUINED your business too. You can do it!!!!!!!!!

That's what is so tiresome and unbelievable sickening for collectors like me. Everyone is in this fight "TOGETHER" and the sooner that both factions of the TPA VS FDE crowds get together, the better for your industry.....No?

[David Atkatz]

All forgeries are not created equal, though, Chuck. There are many--myself included--who do not believe FDEs are as serious a problem as the other TPAs.
FDEs authenticate garbage that wouldn't fool anyone who's looked at a few valid exemplars for, say, five minutes. Their CoAs are not taken seriously by anyone "in the hobby." Our favorite TPAs, on the other hand, authenticate items that will fool serious collectors. Their CoAs are taken very, very, seriously, indeed.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All forgeries are not created equal, though, Chuck. There are many--myself included--who do not believe FDEs are as serious a problem as the other TPAs.
FDEs authenticate garbage that wouldn't fool anyone who's looked at a few valid exemplars for, say, five minutes. Their CoAs are not taken seriously by anyone "in the hobby." Our favorite TPAs, on the other hand, authenticate items that will fool serious collectors. Their CoAs are taken very, very, seriously, indeed.

like

+1

+500

exactly right and i couldnt say it better myself.

the guy selling mexican viagra on the street corner versus what you would expect from the pharmacy. It's when the pharmacy starts getting it wrong is when we are all in trouble, because you go to the pharmacy for competancy.


you get what you bargain for on the street corner and it's not what is truly troubling this hobby.

nearly all the major auction houses rely on abc, and xyz authentication, and 50 thousand and 100 thousand dollar items trade hands there. These auction houses don't accept nor advertise, joe blow fde certs.

[slidekellyslide]

The serious collectors involved in the hobby may consider the ABC's to be a bigger problem than the FDE and joe blow authentication co, but the FDE and Joe Blows are flooding the rest of America with bogus crap that dad thinks he is going to send his kids to college with or pass down. We're starting to see it now with local auction companies filled with Justin Priddy and Chris Morales crapola.

[JimH5]

I met Koschal a couple of times and he seemed like a nice enough guy. He was eccentric, but enthusiastic. I knew he wasn't beloved by the masses, but there are lots of characters in the memorabilia business, so he wasn't unique in that.

But then I saw that he was selling John Wayne Gacy clown paintings and that sealed it for me. It's hard to profess your seriousness for the hobby when you're dabbling in that stuff.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

The serious collectors involved in the hobby may consider the ABC's to be a bigger problem than the FDE and joe blow authentication co, but the FDE and Joe Blows are flooding the rest of America with bogus crap that dad thinks he is going to send his kids to college with or pass down. We're starting to see it now with local auction companies filled with Justin Priddy and Chris Morales crapola.

+1 with a caveat
Not only local auction companies but local shops, malls, etc.
All of them are guilty as sin.
Some will argue that the dollar amount is what is important and it certainly is but the number of items making there way into peoples homes is overwhelmingly doing it with COA's that come from the crapola companies.
And when those people discover what they own is crap, well you can forget about them ever becoming a serious collector.
A pox on all of them.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

+1 with a caveat
Not only local auction companies but local shops, malls, etc.
All of them are guilty as sin.
Some will argue that the dollar amount is what is important and it certainly is but the number of items making there way into peoples homes is overwhelmingly doing it with COA's that come from the crapola companies.
And when those people discover what they own is crap, well you can forget about them ever becoming a serious collector.
A pox on all of them.

Agreed. +1

[thecatspajamas]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

+1 with a caveat
Not only local auction companies but local shops, malls, etc.
All of them are guilty as sin.
Some will argue that the dollar amount is what is important and it certainly is but the number of items making there way into peoples homes is overwhelmingly doing it with COA's that come from the crapola companies.
And when those people discover what they own is crap, well you can forget about them ever becoming a serious collector.
A pox on all of them.

+1

As with any fakes, just because no "serious collector" would be fooled by them doesn't mean that they don't hurt the hobby. Serious Collectors don't spring fully-formed from the head of some old-time collector. We can hope that they cut their teeth buying from reputable dealers and that all of the lessons they learn are from research and handling genuine items, but for every collector who comes up that way, how many dozens more are there who happen upon something in an antique mall or flea market that sparks their interest, is purchased, and later turns out to be fake? If they're new to the hobby and don't know FDE's from ABC's or otherwise, that first lesson can be too hard to swallow, and will turn many away from the hobby altogether. Many will say, "Good, that leaves less competition for me to get the good stuff," but I find that attitude woefully short-sighted. For any hobby to thrive, there have to be new collectors coming in.

[travrosty]

I go into the local field of dreams here in minnesota at the mall of america, and there are the mantle/dimaggio/williams signed photos. both together and singles of each of these stars. and of course they aren't good in my opinion. have the sticker on them from one of the examiners,

but field of dreams thinks its good, so i guess the only rememdy is not to buy. you cant rip it off the wall and throw it away and if you try to tell them their signed photo of mantle they are offering is no good, they look at you and say "who the heck are you?"

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

like

+1

+500

exactly right and i couldnt say it better myself.

the guy selling mexican viagra on the street corner versus what you would expect from the pharmacy. It's when the pharmacy starts getting it wrong is when we are all in trouble, because you go to the pharmacy for competancy.


you get what you bargain for on the street corner and it's not what is truly troubling this hobby.

nearly all the major auction houses rely on abc, and xyz authentication, and 50 thousand and 100 thousand dollar items trade hands there. These auction houses don't accept nor advertise, joe blow fde certs.

Agreed.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

All forgeries are not created equal, though, Chuck. There are many--myself included--who do not believe FDEs are as serious a problem as the other TPAs.
FDEs authenticate garbage that wouldn't fool anyone who's looked at a few valid exemplars for, say, five minutes. Their CoAs are not taken seriously by anyone "in the hobby." Our favorite TPAs, on the other hand, authenticate items that will fool serious collectors. Their CoAs are taken very, very, seriously, indeed.

Points very well taken!

I just choose to believe that they are mistakes by morons at Alphabet, not outright fraud. Perhaps there is some, I don't know? Favoritism, lackadaisical attitudes, spotty work, authenticating through frames, just plain lack of proper research, just plain stupidity causing consumers significant dollars.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Fuddjcal

I loved to read the site except the constant "Anti Semite" crap ships sailed so long ago it hurts. The guy who wrote the majority of that stuff was a one sided moron. What we need is a blog like Autograph Alert that speaks to the collector regarding forgeries in general, not a one wayed JSA &PSA BASHING, like is so fashionable by some. That's where the autograph industry has missed the boat IMHO. TPA & FDE ARE HUGE problems..BOTH of them have issues. FDE's with Authenticating everything like a rubberstamp machine and 3rd party alphabets not learning from their mistakes and refusing to change some of their mis-directed ways.

Why don't you start one Travis and we'll follow, providing it's not a ONE-WAY bashing drill like has been going on here and on other blogs. How about a serious blog where ALL forgeries can be addressed instead of the us vs them mentality. You have the great gift of writing. You can use it to make the Autograph Industry you enjoy a better place if you get on board. If you could come out against "all forgeries", it would be a big step in the right direction.

The other Autograph blog "ANL" is a one way ticket to nowhere where this VanderDopen babbles among himself for 10-15 posts in a row with an ax to grind as does every other misfit on it. It's just a COMPLETE JOKE...

Everyone put down the ax and do something AGAINST ALL FORGERIES. These 3rd party morons are going to kill their own business, as they don't listen to anyone anyway and their mistakes are growing by the day. We want to see that, but we want to see people who are bashing their mistakes passionate about all forgeries PERIOD.....Yes including FDE's which have RUINED your business too. You can do it!!!!!!!!!

That's what is so tiresome and unbelievable sickening for collectors like me. Everyone is in this fight "TOGETHER" and the sooner that both factions of the TPA VS FDE crowds get together, the better for your industry.....No?

a site like what you are talking about is exactly what the tpa's want. it would be cobweb city and wouldn't get any reads. it's managed/damage control criticism and the tpa's would love it. nice little patty cake criticism site.