Legendary Auction Preview

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by canjond

Not sure if anyone from Legendary still reads the board, but the Sweet Caporal pack being described as "Circa 1910s" is most certainly not. It's actually closer to 1920-25 (and at least 1918 based on the tax stamp).

So, a description that reads "we can only assume that a trading card is safely entombed inside as well, though whether it pictures a bird, fish, flag or baseball player is anyone’s guess" is very misleading.

Not trying to single Legendary out here, but they didn't do any diligence on this lot. I'd also be happy to scan the appropriate pages from Springer's Cinderella Stamps guide if they would like verification of tax stamp date.

When I describe something as "circa 1910s" 1918 certainly fits into that time frame. Any where between 1910 - 1919 is acceptable.

[canjond]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

When I describe something as "circa 1910s" 1918 certainly fits into that time frame. Any where between 1910 - 1919 is acceptable.

Maybe - but that, combined with a description that states "we can only assume that a trading card is safely entombed inside as well, though whether it pictures a bird, fish, flag or baseball player is anyone’s guess" certainly seems misleading to me.

I guess everyone may be entitled to his or her own opinion, but the way I read it, there is a high likelihood of SOME card being inside, when actually, that probability is pretty low.

[tcdyess]

Wow, as a Yankee fan I have only gone through 25 pages and have more in my watch list than any other auction. Some beautiful cards and photos...

[thekingofclout]

Originally Posted by canjond

Maybe - but that, combined with a description that states "we can only assume that a trading card is safely entombed inside as well, though whether it pictures a bird, fish, flag or baseball player is anyone’s guess" certainly seems misleading to me.

I guess everyone may be entitled to his or her own opinion, but the way I read it, there is a high likelihood of SOME card being inside, when actually, that probability is pretty low.

My statement was not "my opinion" Jon. It's the industry standard and has been for decades. Circa 1900s = 1900-1909. circa 1950s = 1950-1959. etc.

Also, I was not addressing their description, as that is a whole different issue. Their dating of the pack is correct and should not be bundled with the description in order to claim they are misleading.

BTW... I want to make it clear that I know absolutely nothing about cigarette packs from that or any era. I simply took your original post at face value and commented accordingly.

[canjond]

Fair enough (although I did state at earliest it could be is 1918 - I'm still leaning closer to early-1920s).

[Kenny Cole]

Describing a pack as "circa"1910 is fine if you don't have information which would narrow it down to a more concrete date. I'm not a dealer, so I can't really comment on what the "industry standard" is, but I would sure hope that is isn't so lax that it allows dealers to say something so broad that their
"circa" statement basically wires around what they know, or should know, is the truth. If that's the "industry standard," then buyers are probably getting screwed on a routine basis

I don't know bupkus about packs, but, at least according to Jon, information narrowing down when the subject pack was issued was available, on the pack itself. That seems rather important to me. I don't know Jon personally, but I tend to trust his opinion since he's made a study of taxstamps on packs, and has been posting helpful information (which doesn't make him money, at least not directly), for quite some time. Then you add the fact that Legendry, IMO, tries to make it appear as if the pack was issued in the early teens by stating that it should have some sort of card in it. I have a problem with that too. If Sweet Caporal was still inserting cards into is packs during the 1918-1920's time frame, I might back off some although I would still think the description was misleading. I don't think that's the case however.

IMO, the description is either based upon a really sloppy investigation into the lot they're selling (which I doubt), or a knowing effort to mislead. Either way it is problematic IMO

[dallen]

Well you narrowed down the reason for the inaccurate write up as "intent to deceive or sloppy investiation". I can tell you that there was no intent to decieve. Although the pack looks similar to the 1910 to 1918 era packs it clearly has a later tax stamp which was missed by our cataloguer. It will be corrected before bidding goes live. Hope you all enjoy the auction!

Doug Allen
President
Legendary Auctions

[canjond]

Thanks Doug - and the offer stands. I'd be happy to scan the pages from Springers guide if you would like them for verification purposes.

[drc]

I've never heard of that circa 1910 = 1910-19 standard before, and don't consider 1918 as circa 1910. Circa means plus or minus a few years of the date. 1918 is circa 1920.

However, there can be a little looseness to the +/- number (2 years? 3? 5?) as in practice the dater and buyer don't know the year the item was made. If they knew, there would be no need for the circa.

[oldjudge]

Circa 1910 means that the exact date is unknown but that the best guess is 1910. The probability of it being X years later than 1910 is the same as the probability of it being X years earlier than 1910. As Doug acknowledged, the text was incorrect and it was/will be corrected. The person who said that it pertains to the period from 1910-19 is just plain wrong. Also, there is no dealer convention in the English language, possibly only one in the "self-serving bad English" language.