Ethics question regarding buying at auctions...

[murcerfan]

One of my favorite hobby moments was back a bunch of years when I joined forces with another (asshat and a half) collector on a near set of D359's. I backed off bidding allowing other person to win, as we had a verbal agreement to split up the lot, as niether needed all the cards.
The lot went for a few grand less than what either of us was willing to top out at...I was thrilled.
Next day the other guy turns around and says he needs to double the price/cost of the cards I thought were coming my way. He said he had realized what a great deal he was getting andf went ahead and bid aggressively on a few other lots and won them, so now he needed me to help him cover those costs.
I almost got in my truck and drove down to Poughkeepsie to pound him flat.

....your results may differ.

[Wymers Auction]

Speaking from an auctioneer's standpoint there are no friends at an auction!!! That is the ideal situation for us sister against sister and brother against brother tooth and nail and believe me this happens. We understand the feeling of not bidding up friends and family, but to engage in a ring and try to repress the prices of an auction is illegal it is not a gray area at all.

[Wymers Auction]

I also find it funny that there is so much talk about auction house ethics on here, but when it comes to being a bidder anything goes. Funny double standard.

[steve B]

One local live antique auction I went to there were two guys in the front row competing for the same lot. At one point one turned to the other and asked "do you want to stop now and split it"

The auctioneer stopped the bidding chastised tham for saying that in front of him, because at that point it wasn't going in on lot together, but a collusion. Then he restarted the bidding.

Pooling resources is fine, doing it during the bidding with a competitor isn't.

(Neither of them won, two other bidders came in slightly above where they were.)

Steve B

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by steve B

One local live antique auction I went to there were two guys in the front row competing for the same lot. At one point one turned to the other and asked "do you want to stop now and split it"

Seen it happen once at a live auction...a woman said I'll split the lot with you if you stop bidding and the auctioneer stopped and told her she just broke the law and if she wanted to continue at the auction she won't do that again. You could see the embarrassment on her face...she must have left shortly after because I didn't see her again after that.

[murcerfan]

but to engage in a ring and try to repress the prices of an auction is illegal it is not a gray area at all.

Yeah, we all know what high regard for the law auction houses preying on this "hobby" have had over the past 15 years. You make me laugh.

[Jantz]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Speaking from an auctioneer's standpoint there are no friends at an auction!!! That is the ideal situation for us sister against sister and brother against brother tooth and nail and believe me this happens. We understand the feeling of not bidding up friends and family, but to engage in a ring and try to repress the prices of an auction is illegal it is not a gray area at all.

Sometimes when collectors don't communicate it hurts the final sale price for the seller/auction house too.

It happened last week on Ebay.



Jantz

[tbob]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Speaking from an auctioneer's standpoint there are no friends at an auction!!! That is the ideal situation for us sister against sister and brother against brother tooth and nail and believe me this happens. We understand the feeling of not bidding up friends and family, but to engage in a ring and try to repress the prices of an auction is illegal it is not a gray area at all.

James- I think you are missing the point. I understand collusion and price-fixing, etc. but the following real example illustrates the concept of "apples and oranges" in discussing collectors getting together to buy an auction lot. 8 collectors who would all like between 1 (for a type) and 2-5 cards (for set collectors) decide to pool resources on bidding on a caramel set containing 30 cards. On of the collectors is designated as the bidder, the others watch and keep their fingers crossed. None of the 8 collectors would be able to afford the mid to high grade set but by pooling their resources, "they" become a serious and tenacious bidder. During the final hour of bidding, "they" bid 4 or 5 times, driving the bid amount up and up. Had it not been for the collective bidding, the lot would have sold to another bidder, also tenacious, for quite a bit less. The consignor profited, the auction house profited, the bidders profited because the cards were seldom seen for sale in their condition and they were able to secure cards they needed. The 8 card collectors who communicated about the cards with each other formed bonds of friendship which lasted long after the auction ended and several have traded or sold cards to each other.
The goal was not to depress or "fix" the final price, the goal was to secure cards.
Apples and oranges....