Ethics question regarding buying at auctions...

[iggyman]

Nothing unethical about what you are proposing. In the glory days of eBay (when you could see the other persons id), stuff like you suggested would occasionally happen. But at the end of the day, it would almost be impossible to get a bunch of prewar junkies to actually agree beforehand on what cards they could bid on.

By the way, I'm all "in" on the elimination of a few bidders. Do you need any names???

Lovely Day...

[barrysloate]

Ethics is often about good or bad intentions.

If a group of friends pools their resources to buy a lot because none of them can afford it otherwise and most only need a few cards, then even if it lowers the final price there is nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand, if a group of dealers conspires to depress prices by never bidding against each other, then that is unethical, not to mention illegal.

There is a gray area here, no doubt.

[egbeachley]

An agreement to step-aside and allow another to win an auction is called collusion and is definitely illegal in that it artificially lowers the price.

I don't think this applies to most of the courtesy withdrawals previously mentioned.

[rainier2004]

Im appreciative of all these well-thought responses to the situation. Im in the gray....

[pclpads]

If you're doing this w/ a relative, ok. But, if you're approaching basically a stranger and essentially saying, "I'd appreicate it if you didn't bid on this lot becuz I want it more than you do," that's not a question of ethics, but arrogance. Bad form!

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by pclpads

If you're doing this w/ a relative, ok. But, if you're approaching basically a stranger and essentially saying, "I'd appreicate it if you didn't bid on this lot becuz I want it more than you do," that's not a question of ethics, but arrogance. Bad form!

Yeah, Im more in the middle with guys Ive bought and sold cards with for about a year now. Not a relative, but also not a stranger. The stranger seems like it would fall into that "illegal" category...definitely bad form.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Yeah, Im more in the middle with guys Ive bought and sold cards with for about a year now. Not a relative, but also not a stranger. The stranger seems like it would fall into that "illegal" category...definitely bad form.

Okay, I'll risk getting a reaming....If I know someone on the board collects a rare item, I know he is willing to 'over-spend' for it, and I see such an item come up in a major auction....I have a few choices: 1) I hope he doesn't see it 2) I assume he sees it and I can either give up immediately and alert him to the item, or 3) I can try to outbid him, knowing one of us will pay way above market value, or 4) I contact him in advance and try to come to some sort of arrangement so that the bidding doesn't get out of hand, or 5) he contacts me and I ignore him or brush him off.

If I choose option 4, is that wrong? Personally, I would never do it, but I HAVE had other collectors approach me (option 5), trying to figure out where I stand on a particular item. I generally try to tactfully brush them off.

[prewarsports]

I do this sometimes and it is not collusion because you cant control the other 100 million people on ebay, but it is a nice gesture between friends in a small collecting niche and even if you get outbid or the price goes for what it normally would anyways, at least you know you and your buddies have each others collecting interests in mind.

To me it is no different than seeing a T206 that is underpriced at a show, but that you might already have but know a friend of yours needs. Instead of buying it and raising the price to your friend, you alert your firend to let them buy it and save them some money. Maybe apples and Oranges but thats how I see it.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Okay, I'll risk getting a reaming....If I know someone on the board collects a rare item, I know he is willing to 'over-spend' for it, and I see such an item come up in a major auction....I have a few choices: 1) I hope he doesn't see it 2) I assume he sees it and I can either give up immediately and alert him to the item, or 3) I can try to outbid him, knowing one of us will pay way above market value, or 4) I contact him in advance and try to come to some sort of arrangement so that the bidding doesn't get out of hand, or 5) he contacts me and I ignore him or brush him off.

If I choose option 4, is that wrong? Personally, I would never do it, but I HAVE had other collectors approach me (option 5), trying to figure out where I stand on a particular item. I generally try to tactfully brush them off.

Situation 1 - ok
situation 2 - Actaully a nice thing to do.
situation 3 - ok
situation 4 - Very not ok. See below.
Situation 5 - Hard to tell. I've asked a friend about an item I was interested in and found out how much he'd already bid. Out of my league so I didn't bother bidding, but not as an arrangement, just something I did. I've been asked and have openly told friends my max bid or what I thought of an item. What they decide to do is up to them.

The stuff about how #4 can go very wrong- Unlikely anyone would pursue it on an occasional cheap item, but it still shouldn't be done.

http://www.jamesmccusker.com/news/article.cfm?id=234

http://www.ag.ny.gov/media_center/20...apr21a_04.html

Steve B