Ethics question regarding buying at auctions...

[barrysloate]

It's not uncommon for friends- or fathers and sons- to agree not to bid against each other on an auction lot. It probably won't make a big difference because there likely will be other bidders who will take the lot pretty close to its retail level.

Of course there is another side to it too. How would you feel if you were a consignor, and you overheard two people agreeing not to go head to head on your lot in order to keep the price down. My guess is you wouldn't be very happy about it.

So even though it goes on all the time, and I know I have over the years agreed on occasion not to bid, there is an ethical breach here.

[slidekellyslide]

There are people at local auctions that know I collect Lincoln minor league baseball items and they do not bid against me. Sometimes I get the stuff for the opening bid and sometimes I go against someone that I don't know and pay more for it. I know that I lay off bidding against guys on certain items that I know they collect and are not looking to flip. Pretty much an unwritten rule at auctions between the regular crowd.

[Runscott]

That's cool that you and your Dad have this hobby in common.

I have had collectors 'fish' around with email and PM when they see a card appear that they think I might plan to bid on. If I want the card, I must admit - I'm evasive or non responsive. I have this happen with rare pool cues as well. Same deal - if it's something I want and I know they want it as well, I just practice avoidance. If it's someone who I know will spend an arm and a leg, then we start a dialogue, I wish them well, and I don't bid. I have no desire to run up the price on a friend. On the other hand, it might be a friend selling it.

If you can arrive at a bidding agreement with such a people, I don't see the problem - as Dan said, most of us avoid buying things to flip if we think someone who really collects that item is interested in it. An example is the 'scrap' (misfit) cards that show up every now and then. I know Johnny, Chris, Jantz, etc., are very interested in these things. I won't even bid on them unless it's for my personal collection - I would hate to run things up on one of them, given how much they contribute to researching T206 history/production. It's just sort of an unwritten rule.

[tbob]

I have expressed my feelings before, some agree, some don't, I don't see anything wrong with fellow collectors "stepping aside" for each other on a particular card that is needed. I am aware of the "consignor" argument and I mostly buy cards although I do sell some, mostly duplicates or from sets I no longer am thrilled about, but I still feel there is nothing wrong with collectors helping each other this way. I will go one step further, I don't see a problem with collectors going together to buy a set or large lot and have a plan to divide up the winning cards. I have purchased sets before just to obtain a handful of cards and then sold the rest on BST or ebay, card by card and have also gone in with a group of collectors who might need a type card or a team card or just a couple for their set. There is always the argument that this lowers the final purchase price and hurts consignors but in actuality, there have been a few sets that none of us could afford but we could be vigorous bidders when we come together. The final price was driven up because of the group's bidding...
Just my 2 cents....

[iggyman]

Nothing unethical about what you are proposing. In the glory days of eBay (when you could see the other persons id), stuff like you suggested would occasionally happen. But at the end of the day, it would almost be impossible to get a bunch of prewar junkies to actually agree beforehand on what cards they could bid on.

By the way, I'm all "in" on the elimination of a few bidders. Do you need any names???

Lovely Day...

[barrysloate]

Ethics is often about good or bad intentions.

If a group of friends pools their resources to buy a lot because none of them can afford it otherwise and most only need a few cards, then even if it lowers the final price there is nothing wrong with it.

On the other hand, if a group of dealers conspires to depress prices by never bidding against each other, then that is unethical, not to mention illegal.

There is a gray area here, no doubt.

[egbeachley]

An agreement to step-aside and allow another to win an auction is called collusion and is definitely illegal in that it artificially lowers the price.

I don't think this applies to most of the courtesy withdrawals previously mentioned.

[rainier2004]

Im appreciative of all these well-thought responses to the situation. Im in the gray....