The BCCG problem

[alanu]

Originally Posted by novakjr

Becket didn't need 2 scales...BCCG was a cheap alternative to get 10's on cards that wouldn't have normally been submitted. Why couldn't they just lower the prices on the BGS grading if they wanted more business? If everyone was being honest, it would've evened out in the end for them...However, they knew they'd make more money by creating a scale that would put a 10 on cards that would normally grade anywhere from 6-8. I say as low as 6 because I don't think they consider centering all that heavily on their scale. I've seen some fairly off centered cards in BCCG 10 holders..

I would agree that the BCCG grades are enablers to those trying to deceive others, much like someone supplying drugs to a drug addict... not really "much like", but "somewhat like"

[RobertGT]

I also think it's a cop out to say, as some previous posts have, that the "genie is out of the bottle" on this one, or that if the current Beckett execs could change history regarding the initial bogus BCCG numerical grading scale, they would.

The way I see it, it would be very easy for the current Beckett management to change the absurd BCCG scale TOMORROW and call a VG/EX card a 4, rather than a 8, and call a NRMT card a 7 instead of a 10. What are we talking about - maybe printing a different number on a bunch of flips? How is that an irreversible business decision? Would such a change cost them tens of millions of dollars? NO.

The current Beckett people may not have made the horrible decision regarding the scale all those years ago, but THEY DO have the power to make things right today. It's called being responsible to your customers. When you have the knowledge that your product is being used to deceive and swindle ill-informed people out of thousands of dollars on eBay everyday, YOU change.

But we all know that will never happen and the reasons why it never will.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have never seen more b!tching and complaining in all my life. It's real simple: If you don't like the product, don't use/buy it.

I don't like Olive Garden because I had a bad experience there 20 years ago and I've never been back. But I don't go starting threads about it or forcing my opinion on those that do like it.

Y'alls life must be really pathetic if you have nothing better to do than to sit around and b!tch about the way a company does business. I really think some of you need this:

[ALR-bishop]

I kind of like that place but it is darn hard to get into around where I live

[HRBAKER]

David,

Your right. I gonna save my complaints up for when it's really important.
Like when I get a NPB alert after 4 days bc a seller is supposed to have ESP and know I have been unable to pay for a legitimate reason.

The fact is everyone has a POV, it would be boring if everyone thought the same thing. I have no idea why a company would decide to have 2 products which basically do the same thing but employ a different scale. I have my ideas but I don't know.

The fact is that is a discussion forum. My guess is that many of the folks in this post have obviously opted not to do business with BCCG just like you did with Olive Garden. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't discuss it.

Just my $0.02.

Rag on!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

David,

Your right. I gonna save my complaints up for when it's really important.
Like when I get a NPB alert after 4 days bc a seller is supposed to have ESP and know I have been unable to pay for a legitimate reason.

The fact is everyone has a POV, it would be boring if everyone thought the same thing. I have no idea why a company would decide to have 2 products which basically do the same thing but employ a different scale. I have my ideas but I don't know.

The fact is that is a discussion forum. My guess is that many of the folks in this post have obviously opted not to do business with BCCG just like you did with Olive Garden. That doesn't mean that they shouldn't discuss it.

Just my $0.02.

Rag on!

Jeff,

You're right, this is a discussion forum - of pre-1980 baseball cards. This isn't a "post your complaint here forum." You're also right in the fact that everyone has their own POV's. However, here's this difference. I’ll give my POV in a thread that someone else starts, but I don’t start threads giving my POV and I don't force others to accept my POV.

Let me explain it to you a little different. If one doesn't like guns, then they can simply choose not to own one. However, why do some try to infringe upon the rights of those of that do by calling for a ban on guns? Another example. If one is a vegetarian, then they can simply choose not to eat meat. However, why do some want to try to ban all meat products for those of us that like it? See my point?

In other words, The OP is b!thcing about a service (that I would be willing to bet he’s never even used) that many people like and use and is profitable for the company that offers it, but he wants to do away with it for everyone. He can’t man up and make the responsible decision to just not use their service. No, he takes it to another level and tells all of us why we shouldn’t use it.

Did I wake up and find myself in some communist country? I'm going to say this for the third and final time, Jeff. If one doesn't like a company or their product, don't do business with them. What is so difficult about that?

Edited to add something for Jeff. Yes, I did complain about a seller filing a NPB on me when I was in the hospital. However, here's the difference. (1) I didn't start the thread. I only commented in a thread that somebody else started. (2) I didn't force my POV on others. In other words, I didn't post the seller's name or tell others not to buy from them.

[alanu]

I always get cranky around this time of the month.

I'm just glad I don't have the time to respond to all this bitching and complaining

[HRBAKER]

Originally Posted by alanu

I always get cranky around this time of the month.

I'm just glad I don't have the time to respond to all this bitching and complaining

It'll be here when you get back!

[Leon]

Originally Posted by ALR-bishop

I kind of like that place but it is darn hard to get into around where I live

They almost know us by name at our two closes Olive Gardens. It is my daughter's and wife's favorite place to eat. It is close to the top for me.

As for Beckett changing the BCCG grading system after so many years. Yes, they could do it. I personally think it would be stupid of them to change anything. I just don't look at BCCG....but you know what, in the last few years I probably haven't seen 1, that's right 1, card I even care about in those holders. It's an non-issue. best regards

[RobertGT]

Originally Posted by Leon

They almost know us by name at our two closes Olive Gardens. It is my daughter's and wife's favorite place to eat. It is close to the top for me.

As for Beckett changing the BCCG grading system after so many years. Yes, they could do it. I personally think it would be stupid of them to change anything. I just don't look at BCCG....but you know what, in the last few years I probably haven't seen 1, that's right 1, card I even care about in those holders. It's an non-issue. best regards

Leon,
I have the utmost respect for you and what you have done with this board. It's a tremendous resource for all collectors and I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into moderating these threads and playing referee when they devolve into infantile pissing matches, accusations and name-calling like this one. The job you do is nothing short of remarkable. However, the one thing I would say in regards to your comment is that yes, the BCCG holders are indeed a non-issue on the pre-war side, as those collectors are far too savvy to ever be duped by such a scheme. However, on the post-war side it is a problem, which is why I posted it in the post-war forum. One simple search of "BCCG" on eBay today turns up 10,291 hits, with almost all of them in the post-war category and many of them targeting the big-name rookie cards like Jordan, Ryan, Gretzky and Montana, where a 2 or 3 difference in grade means hundreds of dollars.
Regards,
Rob

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RobertGT

Leon,
I have the utmost respect for you and what you have done with this board. It's a tremendous resource for all collectors and I can't even imagine the amount of work that goes into moderating these threads and playing referee when they devolve into infantile pissing matches, accusations and name-calling like this one. The job you do is nothing short of remarkable. However, the one thing I would say in regards to your comment is that yes, the BCCG holders are indeed a non-issue on the pre-war side, as those collectors are far too savvy to ever be duped by such a scheme. However, on the post-war side it is a problem, which is why I posted it in the post-war forum. One simple search of "BCCG" on eBay today turns up 10,291 hits, with almost all of them in the post-war category and many of them targeting the big-name rookie cards like Jordan, Ryan, Gretzky and Montana, where a 2 or 3 difference in grade means hundreds of dollars.
Regards,
Rob

Thanks for the kind words...And I will concede your points about this being mainly a post war card issue. I also will concede that at the time of the scale being made, it (almost assuredly) had to do with making more money. Why else would they do it? I get it guys. Believe me, my friends over there and myself wish that scale didn't exist. But it does and will continue as it's a profitable business model for them. No where in any of my comments will you see that I said it is good for the hobby. I have said, and remain saying, it is good for them in the way of pure business. So, if I were the one having to pay my bills over there, I would be hesitant to change what is working (in the way of profit). I hope my realistic business approach is taken the way it is meant to be. If I ran the company I would be hesitant to change anything making me good profits. Has anyone seen how "print" magazines are doing nowadays? That was Beckett's bread and butter for decades. With that being the case, my guess is they are just happy to make money. (again, a business-centric view)

[theseeker]

The rest of the world (including Beckett's) uses scales that start at 1. There is only one clear, logical reason for Beckett's low-end service to come along and start at 5-- a shady business arrangement that enables deceptive sellers to inflate card values through a legitimate grading company that decided to lower it's standards for just this one special service.

A generation ago, this hobby had lots of newbie child and casual collectors that were largely driven away by the greedy overkill of manufacturer's and dealers. Rather than working to get back some of the lost revenue Beckett's short-sighted business model is to squeze the last drop of juice out of those that remain. As those Guiness guys used to say "brilliant."

As for all those complaining.......remove those collectors from todays hobby and all that would remain would be smug, sophisticates.