International News Photos

thecatspajamas · #1 02-13-2012, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Yes, of course. I did go through all that back when I owned it - you probably can't see it because it's scribbled over, but I was able to come up with an earlier date based on the phone number that no longer is visible. It was just an interesting example, so thought I'd share. Your post was great and I certainly wasn't contradicting anything you said - trust me, the board crocodiles would have been all over me by now. I'm bleeding in the water at this point and probably shouldn't be sharing ideas at all.

Scott, I didn't mean to be poo-pooing your example or implying that you didn't know what you have. I just wanted to make sure it was clear for other readers of these posts with regards to the various stampings and how they are used to date a photo, as it seems there is a lot of misconception out there. I didn't mean it to sound like I was taking offense or being defensive.

And I am glad that you showed the example, as it reminded me that I do need to do more research on Culver (they seem to come up regularly in these photo threads). Unfortunately, that's one news service that I haven't yet found any "giants' shoulders" to stand on in terms of reference material

I would be glad to hear anything you may have found in your own diggings!

Runscott · #2 02-13-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thecatspajamas

And I am glad that you showed the example, as it reminded me that I do need to do more research on Culver (they seem to come up regularly in these photo threads). Unfortunately, that's one news service that I haven't yet found any "giants' shoulders" to stand on in terms of reference material

I would be glad to hear anything you may have found in your own diggings!

This is the only Culver that ever stood out for me - most that I owned were fairly run of the mill. This one was interesting because they used a cabinet photo to distribute, and because it had two addresses on it (my mistake - not a phone number scribbled out), and the two pieces of paper had been glued over something (I didn't want to remove them to look). At one point I had determined the date that they moved from the first (top) address, so I knew the card had been in their files for at least 'x' number of years.

To me, that was interesting - obviously the piece wasn't perceived as valuable. I also found it curious that they had never stamped a date anywhere on the photo - yes, they could date it based on the fact that it was a Newsboy cabinet, but they were distributing it without that date indicated, leaving it up to the publisher to indicate whatever date they wanted in their publication. I guess it's really not that important - I just found the whole piece interesting.

I enjoyed your Ruth assessment. It's always tempting to want such a photo to be older than it likely is, but as you state - almost certainly a reprint from the 1940's.

Runscott · #3 02-15-2012, 11:42 AM

Digging through my photos for a better Culver example, I came across this Willie Hoppe stamped 1940. Has a similar news service stamp, but missing the 'King Features Synd' line. Also found this 1909-stamped Culver of Hoppe.

D. Bergin · #4 02-15-2012, 12:23 PM

I have found the Culver stampings to generally be pretty irrelevant.

Most of their material looks to be culled from other sources.

thecatspajamas · #5 02-15-2012, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I have found the Culver stampings to generally be pretty irrelevant.

Most of their material looks to be culled from other sources.

That has been my understanding as well: that Culver never employed photographers of their own but utilized images from other sources. Now that I think about it, that could be the reason they were not included in Fogel/Yee's book as any stamping by Culver would be secondary at best.

The one blurb relating to Culver is actually in the Bain's News Service section and says, "After Bain's death in 1944, the United States Library of Congress purchased the preponderance of his archives from Culver Pictures in New York (Culver is still in business today at their 150 West 22nd Street location in Manhattan). The Library's George Grantham Bain Collection consists of an estimated 40,000 glass plate negatives and 50,000 photographic prints. Culver's remaining Bain photos were used in publication until 1992, when they were "deaccessioned" from service. Many of these have since surfaced on the auction block, most notably in Christie's 1996 sale of the Baseball Magazine archives."

aelefson · #6 04-01-2012, 09:37 AM

Hi-
It is great to read this thread after purchasing my own example at the Wilmington MA show this weekend. I bought it presuming it to be a later print of an older photo but I really liked the clarity. The back is virtually identical to the one linked to in this thread (same syndicate line). Attached are scans of the front and back of my example scanned at 400 dpi.
Alan Elefson
aelefson@hotmail.com

D. Bergin · #7 02-15-2012, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Digging through my photos for a better Culver example, I came across this Willie Hoppe stamped 1940. Has a similar news service stamp, but missing the 'King Features Synd' line. Also found this 1909-stamped Culver of Hoppe.

The 1909 date on the Hoppe looks like it's simply and handwritten ID of the date of the image, that could have been added at any time.

The most important stamp on that piece appears to be the one that's obscured by the Culver tag and the bar code.

Runscott · #8 02-15-2012, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

The 1909 date on the Hoppe looks like it's simply and handwritten ID of the date of the image, that could have been added at any time.

The most important stamp on that piece appears to be the one that's obscured by the Culver tag and the bar code.

Lance expressed some interest, so I posted a Culver photo. That's the Bain News Service stamp that's obscurred. The Culver stamp is somewhat useful in that they moved from the 660 address sometime after 1935. I don't know the exact date. Also, there's a Culver photo in the 'Feb pick-up' thread with an address of 205 East 42nd - another way to narrow down age using the Culver stamps. But I agree, they are fairly useless - Culver seemed to have picked up a lot of photos that had been used for years by other services, such as this Bain photo.

The actual print is definitely 1910-ish - a Bain, probably Type 1. It's the one on the right. (The photo on the left is NOT the front of the other scan I posted - I just happened to scan these two together a while back)

D. Bergin · #9 02-15-2012, 01:21 PM

Yup. Thought it might be a Bain. That's a great image of Hoppe.

As an aside, there was a boxer around the same period also named Willie Hoppe. I always assumed he took the name of the more famous Billiards player as a marketing tool, but have never stumbled across confirmation of this.

Willie would have been jealous of the digits possessed by Mordecai Brown. Most of his career he fought with a total of 4 fingers..............both hands combined.

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