So, what's an autograph collector to do? LONG POST AHEAD

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by mighty bombjack

This is good advice, but can you honestly tell me that I'm saving money by going to Kevin Keating's website? I understand that he has a great reputation, but if I'm not paying for that reputation, I can't understand why the prices on his site are higher than any other outlet I can find.

+1

I've been interested in several items on his site before, but have only bought once from him and it was a $40 autograph that was the best example of a $25 dollar name I could find. There are several autographs I am interested in he has, but I usually just end up being patient, doing a lot of research on the signature, and finding it elsewhere.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by mschwade

+1

I've been interested in several items on his site before, but have only bought once from him and it was a $40 autograph that was the best example of a $25 dollar name I could find. There are several autographs I am interested in he has, but I usually just end up being patient, doing a lot of research on the signature, and finding it elsewhere.

Kevin's been one of the largest volume vintage autograph dealers in the country for about 20 years now, so I guess his business model works for him. He's not making his living on $25 autographs, that's for sure. As a general proposition, I've never understood complaints about a dealer's prices. If you're not interested in an item, what do you care about his price? If you're interested in an item but can find it cheaper elsewhere, as in the example above, what do you care about his price? And if you're interested in an item but can't find it cheaper elsewhere, how can you complain about his price? So what's the point, exactly?
Hank Thomas

[chaddurbin]

i've checked out keating's site, some good stuff and i've never complained...he can ask whatever he wants. i figured for the price tho i can buy 3 same pieces from jsa or psa/dna and at least one of them is authentic #lawofaverage.

wayne--thx for the link to ur images. i enjoyed looking through them, the old and new sigs.

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Kevin's been one of the largest volume vintage autograph dealers in the country for about 20 years now, so I guess his business model works for him. He's not making his living on $25 autographs, that's for sure. As a general proposition, I've never understood complaints about a dealer's prices. If you're not interested in an item, what do you care about his price? If you're interested in an item but can find it cheaper elsewhere, as in the example above, what do you care about his price? And if you're interested in an item but can't find it cheaper elsewhere, how can you complain about his price? So what's the point, exactly?
Hank Thomas

I wouldn't necessarily say I was complaining, but agreeing that I think his reputation is built into his price. He has a reputation as one of the most knowledgeable dealers and reputation of having nice stuff, but also has a reputation of having higher than average prices.

"If you're interested in an item but can find it cheaper elsewhere, as in the example above, what do you care about his price?"

I care about his price because there are several items I would want right now because of the quality of the item and the availability (can't find anywhere else at the time), but often times his price doesn't even leave me "on the fence". And I am not talking about just a $25 dollar autograph. My best example was a Pat Collins last year.. He had one listed, and I believe still does, at $1500. I really wanted it, but remained patient and ended up getting one six months later just as nice, if not nicer imo, for right under $1000. Had he had it a little more reasonably priced at lets say $1200, it might have been mine right now. Believe me, I'm not trying to knock Kevin or his pricing, I think he is great and I think his assistant Nitsa is great, but maybe financially, I am not in his target market. And that's fine, I'll still look at his site to fill holes and if I can bring him business, I will.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by mschwade

I care about his price because there are several items I would want right now because of the quality of the item and the availability (can't find anywhere else at the time), but often times his price doesn't even leave me "on the fence". And I am not talking about just a $25 dollar autograph. My best example was a Pat Collins last year.. He had one listed, and I believe still does, at $1500. I really wanted it, but remained patient and ended up getting one six months later just as nice, if not nicer imo, for right under $1000. Had he had it a little more reasonably priced at lets say $1200, it might have been mine right now. Believe me, I'm not trying to knock Kevin or his pricing, I think he is great and I think his assistant Nitsa is great, but maybe financially, I am not in his target market. And that's fine, I'll still look at his site to fill holes and if I can bring him business, I will.

You actually weren't complaining, that was directed at the previous and other posts in the past that took Kevin to task for his prices. And I think you've explained the dynamics at work here pretty well with your personal example. You were willing to be patient and, more importantly, bring some work AND your hard-earned knowledge of the marketplace to bear in getting an acceptable substitute at a better price. I don't think collectors with your expertise are Kevin's primary targeted market. His tremendous inventory offers about as much of a "one-stop shopping" experience as you can find in the vintage autograph hobby. Also, the high end of his stock, all those amazing one-of-a-kind pieces, are anybody's guess as to true market value, and if you really want one, you're probably never going to find another quite like it anywhere else, and that's a big part of his business, too. As for your Pat Collins example, did you at least try to find out his best price for that? I'm just guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet that could have been had without any haggling at all for $1,200, and with some back and forth perhaps even closer to $1,000. You know how it works. He can be stubborn, sometimes, but he's not stupid, either, and I've seen him wheel and deal to make it work many times at the shows we do together, so I know it can be done. Anyway, good discussion about the hobby we love.
Hank

[mschwade]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

As for your Pat Collins example, did you at least try to find out his best price for that? I'm just guessing here, but I'd be willing to bet that could have been had without any haggling at all for $1,200, and with some back and forth perhaps even closer to $1,000. You know how it works. He can be stubborn, sometimes, but he's not stupid, either, and I've seen him wheel and deal to make it work many times at the shows we do together, so I know it can be done. Anyway, good discussion about the hobby we love.
Hank

To be honest with you, I don't think I ever did. I think all the dialogue surrounding the Collins was with Nitsa and she had told me that she didn't know how much negotiating he would be able to do on it because they had been selling their Collins they had in inventory and this was the nicest example he had.

I also remember a regular customer of his telling me that he'll negotiate a lot more at shows than he will over the web.

[HexsHeroes]

Originally Posted by mschwade

I also remember a regular customer of his telling me that he'll negotiate a lot more at shows than he will over the web.

That is very good information for all to know. Kevin's been attending National shows for the past few years, so that might provide an opportunity to snag an item that's been sitting in his inventory for a while. If he's at the National show on a Sunday, that might be a good time to haggle. Then again, if his show sales have been very good, perhaps not. Hmmmm . . . what to do?

[Hankphenom]

I've never seen him not be willing to come off his sticker price, and I'm guessing it's the same, although perhaps not as easy as when you're face-to-face, with his internet sales. There's some slack built into everyone's prices, just part of the game. We'll be in Baltimore, so come by and try it.