Very Upset With Myself

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by travrosty

Right on target.

if everyone snipes, then no one is really sniping. its just putting in your max bid and it doesn't matter if you put it in right away or with one second left.

now if someone snipes and you lose out because you would have topped his last second snipe bid, then you yourself did not put in your max bid, either right away or sniping. that's your fault. why would you not put in your absolute maximum bid and let it get away? that's what i don't get.

sniping isn't a surprise move. everyone knows the other guy is going to snipe, all the more important to put in your absolute max bid, and let the chips fall where they may, whether you snipe or not, so it doesnt really mater if you snipe. It's a strategy but not really.

now many people say that they would have paid another dollar for the item, even over their absolute max bid, but then again, you don't know the max bid of the other guy, so one dollar more turns into 20. turns into 100. turns into 300. Figure out your super absolute crazy max bid and bid it and stick with it and there is never a need to snipe. if people like to snipe, that's fine, but its not really sniping anything.

Sometimes you do know that the other person's max bid wasn't much higher than your own.

Recently I won an ebay auction with a bid just 12cents higher than the under bidder. My max bid just happened to beat the other buyer by that much. Since I got mine in first it didn't matter that my bid wasn't at the actual bid increment that it was suppose to be. So in this case had the under bidder had time he (or she) could have quickly increased their bid by the minimum increment amount and won it.

[Jewish-collector]

I never did understand sniping. I agree with the previous posts. Just put in a bid the most you want to pay. If you win great, if you lose, that's OK because a similar card will be listed the next day or in a week or a month. It never ends.....

I think with sniping, you just don't show your interest in the auction. That's all.

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by Jewish-collector

I never did understand sniping. I agree with the previous posts. Just put in a bid the most you want to pay. If you win great, if you lose, that's OK because a similar card will be listed the next day or in a week or a month. It never ends.....

The entire reason that sniping exists is to combat the bidders (or potentially shillers) who chip away at your max bid... essentially the less disciplined bidder who continually bids "just one more time" to see if he/she can be top bidder.

There was a card I sniped last night at a price roughly half of what I was willing to pay. If I had put in a max bid, I believe that I would have ultimately paid a higher price on that item as it would have given one or more people more time to chip away at my bid.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by t206hound

The entire reason that sniping exists is to combat the bidders (or potentially shillers) who chip away at your max bid... essentially the less disciplined bidder who continually bids "just one more time" to see if he/she can be top bidder.

There was a card I sniped last night at a price roughly half of what I was willing to pay. If I had put in a max bid, I believe that I would have ultimately paid a higher price on that item as it would have given one or more people more time to chip away at my bid.

there is no chipping away at the bid.

Whether sniping or not, he put in the price he was willing to pay for the piece. that's it. you won it, because your bid was higher. if he wanted to pay more, you think he would have bid more before time ran out, right? he didn't, because he wasnt willing to pay more.

its a psychological balm only, this sniping, there is no sniping, you put in the most you are willing to pay, he puts in the most he is willing to pay, whether you both enter it right away or with one second left, and the highest bid takes it. if you are kicking yourself because you should have entered more, THEN ENTER MORE!

[t206hound]

Originally Posted by travrosty

its a psychological balm only, this sniping, there is no sniping, you put in the most you are willing to pay, he puts in the most he is willing to pay

I think this where your assumption is incorrect. Under your assumption, you would only see one bid on an item from each user id. Look at bid histories of some of the items that you've bid on. It's not uncommon to see the same user id place several bids on the same item. If he put in the most he was willing to pay, he wouldn't have to bid again. He is chipping (trying to find the lowest bid that will put them in the lead) or he is undisciplined and thinks maybe if I just go $X more, I'll win (and repeats this several times). In the end, it's my belief that I win more items (and pay less for them) by sniping.

[mrmopar]

Bingo.

Whether or not you are willing to pay more, there are bidders who just have to be high bidder no matter what. If you use a large proxy bid right off the bat and one of those bidders comes along, you will see your bid eclipsed and the item may very well sell for much more than had a snipe bid been used.

This is not necessarily a realistic example, but it shows the logic:

For example, let's say you are willing to pay $1000. You bid $1000 and along comes the "has to be high bidder at all times" guy. He just keeps bidding and bidding until he is the high bidder. You are out, but since you placed your max bid, you walk away and say oh well, maybe next time.

However, let's say that you only bid $100 initially and then set up a snipe for $1000. That "has to be high bidder" guy then goes to work and becomes high bidder at $101.00 and then assuming no other bids, your snipe takes the win at $102.

I have found that almost every time I place a bid when I don't feel a snipe is necessary, I lose because someone outbids me early, not just snipe bids. I still lose when sniping, but I win more often and I believe I pay less along the way.

Originally Posted by t206hound

The entire reason that sniping exists is to combat the bidders (or potentially shillers) who chip away at your max bid... essentially the less disciplined bidder who continually bids "just one more time" to see if he/she can be top bidder.

There was a card I sniped last night at a price roughly half of what I was willing to pay. If I had put in a max bid, I believe that I would have ultimately paid a higher price on that item as it would have given one or more people more time to chip away at my bid.

[freakhappy]

Good point, Curt...I believe your assessment is correct.

However, if you find a card that may be worth 1k and think I can get it for $100 with a snipe bid, let me know!!!


Mike

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Sometimes you do know that the other person's max bid wasn't much higher than your own.

Recently I won an ebay auction with a bid just 12cents higher than the under bidder. My max bid just happened to beat the other buyer by that much. Since I got mine in first it didn't matter that my bid wasn't at the actual bid increment that it was suppose to be. So in this case had the under bidder had time he (or she) could have quickly increased their bid by the minimum increment amount and won it.

but then you could have increased it too, then him then you, and it goes on forever until the price is 50 bucks higher. if he was willing to pay 50 more bucks for the piece, then why didnt he enter the higher bid right away?

thats what i dont get? if you enter the price you are willing to pay but not one cent more, and i mean the price that would almost make you cry, a price that you wouldnt add 1 cent if your life was on the line, then it doesnt matter if you are outbid by 12 cents, because if you were willing to bid 13 more cents to win it, why didnt you make a max bid that was 13 cents higher, or 10 dollars higher.

a max bid is a max bid, and if you were willing to pay more just to be the winner, then increase your max bid the first time you bid and be content, you cant win them all! There is always another dollar to chase, its fruitless.

If i wanted a card and it is generally worth 200 dollars in the condition that it is in, and i have been searching for this card for 20 years and i want it really bad, i imagine a bidding war in my head ahead of time, and i decide the absolute max that i would bid because i might never see it again the rest of my life. if i decide i would be willing to pay 450 dollars for it because i want it bad, then i enter my max bid of 450, and if someone else wins it for 450.01 then he wins. if i was willing to bid 2 cents more to win it, then 450 wasnt really my max bid, now was it. You got to stop sometime. If I WAS willing to go higher, then i need to figure out my max bid, a bid where i wouldnt bid even one cent more. if it is 500, 600 or 1000 for a 200 dollar card, then so be it. but if someone wants it more than me, he can bid higher. but there will be a price that i say to heck with it, i am done, and if you figure out that price before you bid for the first time, you can just bid right away and be done with it, and if someone wins with a 12 cent higher bid, then good for him!

[Leon]

If I really want a card on ebay I figure the price it should go for, multiply it by 4-6x, and make that my snipe....and forget about it. Last night I won an auction for about $73.....my snipe was $397.77. I had never seen those cards before. If someone else wanted them then they were going to have to pay. If they did win them then I would have just felt they wanted them more than I did. I snipe approximately 98% of the time.....heck, maybe more. I don't care for the drama in manual last minute bids. Forget about all of the psychology, I just set my bid at the max I will pay. If I bid early it usually means I don't really want the card. Interesting subject. regards

ps...I should add that many times I do adjust my snipes before the end of the auction, depending on how I feel about the item...the one last night, I really wanted and upped it another $100, before the end, to be sure...

[steve B]

Some of sniping is psychological, but there are a few real advantages.

it does limit the degree of shilling possible. Of course a dedicated seller could enter a shill at a fairly high price. Some do it to avoid paying for a reserve.

It also eliminates the "bid big then cancel to find the other bidders max" strategy (which I have never used even though it's possible)

Done manually it allows those of us with poorer organizational skills and/or less budget to make the decision to bid and how much at the last moment.
For example, I may have a few cards in watching, all of which I want and can afford. Say it's 5 T206s that I expect to be about $40 each. But then I see one listed that's maybe a tough back or a really nice one. If I've bid my max on the other 5 I have to continue as if I will win all of them. If I'm waiting to snipe I can pass them by freeing up budget for the more interesting one.
Yes, with a service I could cancel the outstanding snipes, but I'd be likely to forget or get busy with something else and end up with a problem. I've only used credit once for a collectible, and that was a once in a lifetime or two opportunity.

Doing it manually also allows a two tiered snipe. On a very few items I'll place a bid at what I think is full price at about 10 seconds, or as early as a few days before the end. And I have another waiting to use at somewhere under 5 seconds. (This might only be possible with a fast connection like cable) I only do this on stuff I really want, and the crazy bid is only there for those cases where my realistic max might fall slightly short. And it usually means I'm done buying for the month.

The downsides?
The biggest problem with doing it manually is forgetting or missing the end time. But as others have said there's usually another cool item coming up soon.

And you really have to bid your actual maximum which can be a bit of a budget buster if two people place fairly high bids. I've had that go both ways.

Steve B

[doug.goodman]

Erick (and Leon) are absolutely correct.

Looking at it from a purely logical perspective :

If you bid your maximum amount early, then future bidders who you have outbid know about it instantly and have a chance to bid again, which costs you money.

Bidding multiple time doesn't make sense for more reasons than I care to go into.

Bidding your highest amount at the last possible second means that the only people who will have time to out bid you are those who either already have or are doing using the same strategy, either way you lost, so get over it.

Let's say that you and another guy both want an item. He bids the minimum early and keeps an eye on the auction. If you bid early, he has time to rebid, and rebid again, and so do you. Eventually somebody wins. Price keeps going up. Seller is very happy.

If you waited until the last possible second and bid your maximum, he has no time to bid again and you win the item for the minimum plus one bid increment.

My method does not guarantee a win, but my method does guarantee that you spend as little money as possible.

Doug

[Exhibitman]

Shilling is the biggest reason to snipe. Since Ebay made it impossible to see who is bidding against you, it is open season for shilling. I usually put in a low bid to indicate that someone is interested in the card so the seller won't panic that the item won't sell, then set my real max as a snipe. I believe it has saved me a lot of money over the years.

Chipping away at a max bid is definitely real; I do it all the time. I often see an item that I would be willing to own at a certain price level but don't want enough to pay what I perceive to be full retail. If it has bids already I will sometimes whack away at the high bid a few times just to see if I can luck out and top it, running up the bid in the process. If that bidder set a snipe instead I would end up with the high bid at a lower tier and would stop bidding at that point.

Another use of sniping is bid coordination. I use auctionstealer, which allows you to create bid groups in which the first item to hit cancels the other bids on items in the group. Really useful when I definitely want at least one item of a group-like for a rare type card--but not necessarily all of them.

Finally, there are some circumstances in which I am not sure whether I want to commit to an item for whatever reason. Sniping lets me set up a bid so I don't forget the item [we all know how life can interfere with card shopping] but without really committing to it until the last minute.

[frankbmd]

I have not used the sniping programs, but do think chipping away at max bids is real. I prefer to place my max bid at 5-7 seconds before the end of the auction, the pre-snipe bid. This prevents manual bidders from topping me by rebidding. If I lose to Leon with his $10,000 max bids, so be it. But if I happen to match the snipe bid (and this has happened), my pre-snipe trumps the snipe.

As I tell my wife, if you lose at the casino, the money is no longer in your pocket, but if you lose to a snipe bid, you break even.

[teetwoohsix]

When I used to use ebay, I'd chip away at bids. Sometimes my "original" bottom line price would go out the window quickly, depending on "how bad" I wanted that card....and I didn't use a snipe program. But I see the point of snipe programs to deal with shill bidding....that makes sense.

Sincerely, Clayton