SMR vs. VCP

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

SMR is also way low on many T207s, M116s, and pretty much all pre-war hockey (especially grades between 2-4).

I did some quick research on the T207 and M116s to prove my theory. I took the first three HOFers in the T207 set (Bender, Bresnahan and Carey) and the last three HOFers in the M116 set (Wallace, Willis and Young - I skipped Walsh because there was no pricing data) and looked at the SMR vs. VCP price for each of those cards in a PSA 5.

T207 (all common backs)
Bender - SMR $430 vs. VCP $385.99
Bresnahan - SMR $430 vs. VCP $223.07
Carey - SMR $500 vs. VCP $450

M116 (blue backs)
Wallace - SMR $265 vs. VCP $208.32
Willis - SMR $265 vs. VCP $277
Young - $900 vs. VCP $822

As you can see, only 1 card (M116 Willis) had a higher VCP than SMR (and it was less than 5%). I tried to be as fair as I could in my 15 minutes of research. I'm sure someone can give other examples of cards in these sets (or other sets) where the VCP is higher than the SMR, but that holds true of any set/any year. I still stand behind my original statement that for the most part, VCP is lower than SMR (on most cards).

[HRBAKER]

Is there no issue with a leading grading company that sells advertising to major auction houses printing/issuing a pricing guide. Are we supposed to believe that this information can be taken legitimately. To me that's like the Frito-Lay Co. printing the Physician's Desk reference.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I did some quick research on the T207 and M116s to prove my theory. I took the first three HOFers in the T207 set (Bender, Bresnahan and Carey) and the last three HOFers in the M116 set (Wallace, Willis and Young - I skipped Walsh because there was no pricing data) and looked at the SMR vs. VCP price for each of those cards in a PSA 5.

T207 (all common backs)
Bender - SMR $430 vs. VCP $385.99
Bresnahan - SMR $430 vs. VCP $223.07
Carey - SMR $500 vs. VCP $450

M116 (blue backs)
Wallace - SMR $265 vs. VCP $208.32
Willis - SMR $265 vs. VCP $277
Young - $900 vs. VCP $822

As you can see, only 1 card (M116 Willis) had a higher VCP than SMR (and it was less than 5%). I tried to be as fair as I could in my 15 minutes of research. I'm sure someone can give other examples of cards in these sets (or other sets) where the VCP is higher than the SMR, but that holds true of any set/any year. I still stand behind my original statement that for the most part, VCP is lower than SMR (on most cards).

Hello David,

The examples you chose for T207 and M116 are not really good ones for those sets. Those sets are not so much about the HOFers - they are much more about multiple levels of scarcity and even rarity in terms of many subjects. Although you chose HOFers, those cards are "common" in those sets.

Where SMR utterly falls down in a laughable way is failing to recognize the scarce/rare cards in these sets. Their across-the-board broad brush price setting had nothing to do with what the market is paying.

I don't have time to cite hundreds of examples, but there are literally hundreds.

Want one that I just looked at that made me laugh?

SMR says T207 Mike Donlin in a 1 is $22. It says that card in a 3 is $55. Hahahaha!

Wanna know the real prices people are paying (ie. the real value) found by looking at VCP? Try over $1,000 for a 1 and almost $3,000 in a 3.

Wonder if those buyers knew they were paying 50 TIMES SMR?

There are tons of examples similar to this.

Cheers,
Blair

[BobbyVCP]

I just checked out SMR for the very first time online now since it is free. And wow your right they really missed the boat on the T207 Donlin, bet now the PSA5.5 in Clean Sweep is really going to jump up in price.

[ls7plus]

Blair's comment was excellent. PSA's philosophy with regard to extremely rare cards is to be very conservative in their prices. It was also good to hear from Bobby re some of what he's got planned, as I find VCP a very informative tool, although just one in the tool box, rather than the be-all and end all. As I've stated before, I believe ebay continues to reflect largely wholesale prices, and not much more, attracting a much smaller percentage of collectors who might have a real interest in a truly significant item, than do the major auction houses. It's always been the case that the quicker you want to sell, the less you usually get. The venue you choose for your sale simply reflects what your needs are.

Best regards always,

Larry

[Exhibitman]

I like the analogy David but it is flawed. The SMR is more like the Kelly Blue Book in that it says what the cars are supposedly worth. A sticker is the dealer ask price--you don't expect that to be an accurate reflection of value.

I simply do not see the efficacy of a price guide that is wrong.

But it is definitely worth what they are charging for it now.

[Edwolf1963]

Originally Posted by BobbyVCP

I just checked out SMR for the very first time online now since it is free. And wow your right they really missed the boat on the T207 Donlin, bet now the PSA5.5 in Clean Sweep is really going to jump up in price.

I keep coming back to "if it's free, how good is it then?"

[E93]

I am a big fan of VCP. It has been an incredibly valuable resource for me as both a buyer and occasional seller.
JimB