POLL: Who is responsible to reimburse collectors for bad autographs

Caseyatbat · #1 01-16-2012, 07:42 PM

Yes I like the thread as well! There is no question it is a hot topic that is not going to go away anytime soon. Believe me, it kills me to shovel thousands of dollars to TPA's every year. Especially when I am 100% confident that every item I am giving to them is authentic or I would not have bought it to begin with. But on the other hand, I also want to maximize the potential value of each item. And in my experiences, I have been able to do so much easier when I use a TPA as well as give my own personal Guarantee and COA. And the investment into TPA does come back to the dealer when the item is sold. So I really just don't see why a dealer wouldn't use one, the buyer is paying for it anyways. It attracts more buyers than without. And dealers like buyers...The more the better.

Also you mentioned this industry has survived for a long time without TPA's up until recently. I think that makes sense. Autograph forgeries were not that common until the early 90's. Of course there were some before, but since the 90's it has been a large-scale problem that only seems to be getting worse. And the forgeries never really go away either, we still have all of the original forgeries floating around the market as well as all of the newer forgeries as well being pumped out every day. They just keep piling up in the market. So I believe now more than ever TPA's are needed. And yes they are wrong from time to time, but in my experiences they are correct 99% of the time. Which are pretty good odds considering they are human.

HRBAKER · #2 01-16-2012, 08:13 PM

Casey,
I am enjoying this discussion as well. One conclusion that I have drawn and that I think is readily apparent is that the marketing efforts of these companies have been extremely successful. I have a question for you. If all these companies are doing is offering a non-interested third party "opinion" about whether a signature is genuine, why is their opinion more expensive the more valuable the autograph is? Or am I wrong about that? Thanks.

If all they are offering is an opinion then it seems that they are not incurring any risk associated with a guarantee.

travrosty · #3 01-16-2012, 08:21 PM

Believe me, it kills me to shovel thousands of dollars to TPA's every year. Especially when I am 100% confident that every item I am giving to them is authentic or I would not have bought it to begin with. But on the other hand, I also want to maximize the potential value of each item. And in my experiences, I have been able to do so much easier when I use a TPA as well as give my own personal Guarantee and COA. And the investment into TPA does come back to the dealer when the item is sold. So I really just don't see why a dealer wouldn't use one, the buyer is paying for it anyways. It attracts more buyers than without. And dealers like buyers...The more the better.

This is the biggest fallacy out there, it is simply not true. If it kills you to shovel thousands to TPA's, then don't do it. I don't do it, I sell just fine. So do lots of my friends. You will just get more serious bidders who look for quality items and know what they want and know a good autograph when they see one, rather than some guys who just buy the cert. The autographs still sell and for basically the same amount of money.

I have sold autographs that normally go for 420 dollars with tpa cert, for 400 without one, and the cert would have cost 75 dollars, so if I would have got the cert, I lose 55 dollars, but I can make it up in volume I guess.

Caseyatbat · #4 01-16-2012, 10:11 PM

Jeff, To answer your question, I don't believe they charge more for the value of an autograph. It is a pretty flat rate. An example would be 150 dollars for any team signed baseball with 18 or more signatures. But if the ball has big names such as Ruth, Gehrig etc. I believe they charge 250 dollars for the team ball. So more in that aspect I guess.

One of the problems with the price is I think it is too much of a flat rate. For instance a Mantle autograph is 100 dollars with PSA. That may be acceptable because the ball is going to sell for 500 dollars. But they also charge 100 dollars for a Mantle signed 8x10 photo which is horrible, authentic ones are selling for only 150 dollars on ebay even with the TPA full letter. So how is it possible they can charge 100 dollars to authenticate an item that is only selling for 150 dollars? In that aspect I wish it did actually fluctuate with the value of the item because maybe in this case to authenticate a Mantle 8x10 would only be about 25 dollars.

thenavarro · #5 01-16-2012, 11:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caseyatbat

it kills me to shovel thousands of dollars to TPA's every year.

Casey,

I'm sure you probably already know this with the volume that you indicate that you do, but if you are giving PSA/DNA that much business, you shouldn't be paying full price. You might be getting discounts already, I have no way of knowing, but if not, just ask for them and it will save you some coin.

JSA will discount as well (not as aggressive as PSA/DNA though from my experience)

Take care,

Mike

drc · #6 01-17-2012, 01:58 AM

Okay. I stopped by my parents and my 76 year old dad was doing a jigsaw puzzle. He's never collected or sold. I asked him the big question of if a dealer sold an autograph that was given an LOA from some 'big authentication company,' and the autograph turned out to be a a forgery, who pays the refund? He said the dealer should pay, but he should in turn get some money from the authentication company.

Caseyatbat · #7 01-17-2012, 09:42 AM

Hello Mike, Thank You very much for the advice. I do have the discount already. Although I wish it was more. But your right, PSA is a little more aggressive in this sense. I was surprised to see it wasn't the other way around! Thanks Mike.

View Poll Results: Who do you think should have to refund a customer in the event of a bad autograph?
The dealer	57	62.64%
TPA's	34	37.36%
Voters: 91. You may not vote on this poll

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