T206 Speaker NO RED in Goodwin

[wonkaticket]

Iggy, I wasn't taking shots at you just saying I thought folks gave a lot of these guys way to much credit in terms of doctored cards. I lumped you in sorry if I offended you.

I also agree many can be exposure vs. at time of production but the Dahlen looked ok to me no real super red flags.

As for the color red fading due to exposure I think that having a color like red only fade and green, yellow, blue etc. not also be affected would be tough to explain so I don’t follow you there. But I'm happy to learn and would like to if you can explain how just red is effected by exposure.

In the end I just don’t see some super lab with a mad scientist with a special brew of chemicals knocking out certain colors and then selling commons and beaters for $300 vs. $20. Seems like a lot of work and a lot of expertise for such a little return…Kevin S tried to show that he could do it never saw one card he worked that looked legit. I also think if it was so easy you would see these everywhere sort of like trimmed cards and reprints no shortage of those.

Now re-backing and overprints….well…that’s another story money to be had there for sure if you’re a dirty clown.

Cheers,

John

P.S. That Cobb still has quite a bit of red in his cheeks FWIW, I think many of these are nothing more than print oddities. For gods sake you should see what my laser printer and ink jets at the office do when they get low on one color. So I think a lot of stuff left these factories wacky I know it did. I used to toss back these cards in deals saying they were ugly back in the day ughhh. It really just depends if you want to pay extra for these or not IMO.

[Mikehealer]

Iggy, in the Cobb you posted how come the rest of the card isn't faded? I don't really understand how just the background is faded and the rest of the card looks "normal". I'm just curious.
Thanks
Mike

[mkdltn]

Some colors are more lightfast or fugitive than others. Today art materials carry a rating for how well they stand up to prolonged exposure to light. Lithographers back then were very mindfull of how lightfast or fugitive an ink was but exceptions were made.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by Mikehealer

Iggy, in the Cobb you posted how come the rest of the card isn't faded? I don't really understand how just the background is faded and the rest of the card looks "normal". I'm just curious.
Thanks
Mike

Mike,

I'm just a recreational weekend softball player, so I'm way out of my league here and won't be able to intelligently answer your question. But at the end of the day, this is what I know to be true; the red color pigment used on T206 cards is more sensitive to ultraviolet light then the other colors. Thus, the other colors will eventually fade, but red will go first and at a much faster rate. That is the bottom line.

Lovely Day...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

In the end I just don’t see some super lab with a mad scientist with a special brew of chemicals knocking out certain colors and then selling commons and beaters for $300 vs. $20. Seems like a lot of work and a lot of expertise for such a little return…Kevin S tried to show that he could do it never saw one card he worked that looked legit. I also think if it was so easy you would see these everywhere sort of like trimmed cards and reprints no shortage of those.

John, that doesn't stop people from working on such projects - for example, there are plenty of hackers who don't make a dime, but just do it for fun. I could see someone trying to create red-less Speaker cards with chemicals (if it's even possible), just for grins and to stump people like us. Now that you've said Kevin couldn't succeed at doing it, you might have encouraged one of these 'mad scientists' to get out his chemistry kit again.

[atx840]

The Cobb was auctioned as faded.

"The Hall of Famer’s face retains its customarily vigorous hues but – apparently through the use of photo-corner mounts and in consideration of certain shades fading at differing rates – long-ago display measures resulted in a “new” background hue (a taste of the original is still evident at the top-right corner)"

[fkw]

not all of them are faded (maybe a small % are), the fade would affect more than only the background or only the red uniform ink




this was in a scrapbook for much of its life, it didnt fade. The normal red only shows on the very bottom (low ink in lithograph process is my understanding)

[iggyman]

John,

No offense taken, actually I consider it a badge of honor that you actually referenced me in a post. I took out my handy loupe and started looking at my T206 Red Cobb and the bold red that you see in the background is on his lips, by his ears, and a small smidgen by his eyes, but his cheeks are a different shade of red. Thus, the pigmentation is different which would then affect the fading. If the red used on his cheeks were on the background, then the background color would not have faded so badly. I've attached a picture; notice the red on his lips. eyes, and ears are the same as in the background, yet the red on his cheeks is a different shade. I sure wish one of the printer guys would chime-in!

T206 Red Cobb2.jpg

Red will almost ALWAYS fade first, it happened on the Star-Spangled Banner and it happens on T206 cards. Here is a short article about fading: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/charters/fading.html


Lovely Day...