Slabbing old paper

[bbcard1]

I bought a few woodcuts from the 1880s, made a photoshop background, and put them in a two piece. I am thrilled with adding a vintage hall of famer that is a contemporary representation from his playing days...and I got it for around ten bucks instead of having to drop more than a grand. I'd love to find a few more at that cost.

[ctownboy]

Fred,

From what I can remember, one of the guys (there were a few) you are talking about was from Hawaii and he seemed to do a good amount of business. That business, however, I think of as fraud.

As has been said, he would take an old newspaper or publication, cut some pieces out of them, put those pieces in slabs, grade them himself (a high grade) and then try and pass them off as something they weren't.

I think (hope) eBay put a stop to this when they made it a rule that items had to be from one of the reputable grading services if they were slabbed and graded.

Now, as far as what bbcard1 did, I don't have a problem if he took an old ratty publication, cut some pieces out and slabbed them for his own personal use and pleasure. He isn't "grading" them, trying to sell them or passing them off as something they aren't. No, he is just doing it for himself to look at.

Now, if he cut up a perfectly good guide then that is another thing....

David

[drc]

A big thing is that 'AAA' eBay seller didn't say they were cut out of books or magazines, and would, in so many words, imply that they were trading cards. They were sold deceptively. I've seen cut out woodcuts in Becket holders, but the difference is they were clearly labeled as cut outs . . . The collectability is a second issues

Cutting out a 1880s Harper's woodcut is an interesting issue. The woodcut is a finished print-- that was placed amongst the text. The woodcut block used to make that print was a block of wood in an of itself that was placed within the typeset. If you cut out the woodcut, you are cutting out the whole woodcut. Duly note that I prefer the whole page to a cutout woodcut-- if due to aesthetics more than ethics. I think the entire newspaper page looks neatest.

[joeadcock]

David

Thanks for your explanation, but I still dont follow. Was interested prior in what was meant by a woodcut. As I have little knowledge of the process, could you explain it in a little more detail?

I dont understand how the wood was incorporated with a type set. Did they start with a piece of wood and somebody whittled out the players face/torso? Did they then add the words via typical type(metal). They then used ink on both and pressed it against paper?

Thanks

[steve B]

Originally Posted by joeadcock

David

Thanks for your explanation, but I still dont follow. Was interested prior in what was meant by a woodcut. As I have little knowledge of the process, could you explain it in a little more detail?

I dont understand how the wood was incorporated with a type set. Did they start with a piece of wood and somebody whittled out the players face/torso? Did they then add the words via typical type(metal). They then used ink on both and pressed it against paper?

Thanks

Exactly. The block is usually maple and they carve the design into the endgrain which can take fine detail. they remove all but what is supposed to print. Then the wood block is used as if it were a piece of type.

I did it in an art class, and it's pretty challenging. To think the newspaper guys turned out loads of them in any given week and all with lots of detail continues to impress me.

Some may actually be photographically etched copper plates. Still done by hand and very quickly...


Steve B

[novakjr]

Originally Posted by drc

A big thing is that 'AAA' eBay seller didn't say they were cut out of books or magazines, and would, in so many words, imply that they were trading cards. They were sold deceptively. I've seen cut out woodcuts in Becket holders, but the difference is they were clearly labeled as cut outs . . . The collectability is a second issues

Cutting out a 1880s Harper's woodcut is an interesting issue. The woodcut is a finished print-- that was placed amongst the text. The woodcut block used to make that print was a block of wood in an of itself that was placed within the typeset. If you cut out the woodcut, you are cutting out the whole woodcut. Duly note that I prefer the whole page to a cutout woodcut-- if due to aesthetics more than ethics. I think the entire newspaper page looks neatest.

Going back on encapsulated woodcuts. Personally, I prefer the whole issue(although harder to display, unless it's a cover), or at the very least the whole page. In both cases the items are usually to large to encapsulate. I'm not against the cutout woodcuts, but much like you, I prefer the aesthetics of the item as a whole..

[novakjr]

The newspaper clippings I think are silly. I originally wasn't a fan of encapsulated woodcuts and guide pages. BUT upon second thought, the woodcuts started to make sense, as they are technically pieces of art. Now, there is a second part to the woodcuts, and that's that they many times are the oldest depictions of a player(or at the very least close), and this often times makes sense for the guide pages as well, during years where there weren't cards, or the photo predates a players earliest card.

Now I'm not trying to justify encapsulating all guide pages, but some of them make sense. For instance, A 1906 Guide page of the '05 Tigers team, which would include an early photo of Cobb seems fine to me, while a random guide page with no discernable significance really doesn't make much sense to me..

Or, take this example. A 1894 Guide page of the '93 Cleveland team(composite), which includes early photo's of Cy Young, Jesse Burkett, plus Buck Ewing and John Clarkson.. Honestly, aside from the Just So's of Young and Burkett and the Ryder Cabinet of Young(all of which only a single example are known), this Cleveland Guide page significantly pre-dates most, if not all, reasonably attainable items of the the two. This item in my opinion deserves encapsulation..

I myself have a handful of guide pages in my collection. My one stipulation when it came to them is that it had to have a significantly early depiction of a notable player(usually a HOFer, and usually predating earliest card/pin/premium/whatever). Now, neither my Detroit page or my 1894 Cleveland page are currently encapsulated, but I do plan on it sometime soon..These are both very cherished items in my collection and I just feel like these individual items are worthy of encapsulation.

Now, when it comes to the individual photos that were originally part of a larger item(such as a team composite), I don't like seeing them encapsulated. I also don't condone cutting up guides, but if they're already torn out, I just wanna find the nicest way to display or protect them..