Killer find on Ebay

[mcgwirecom]

I think there is a way to find out who was the high bidder also. I'm not sure how but another member once explained it to me but I've forgotten. I thought that was interesting.

[Shoeless Moe]

By high bidder, I assume u then also mean the winner. The only way I know of seeing who the winner/high biider was is to wait a few days and then look under the Sellers Feedback Left for Others tab. The sellers usually leave feedback to their sold items, then u can click on the winner id to see them.

Just a side note. I am really thinking that this ball may very well be the ball from the last out of the 1917 World Series. I am thinking of looking into getting access to a library and their archives - old newspapers from those towns for both Reading, PA where Lew McCarty died and maybe Milton, PA where he was born. Then of course NY and Chicago newspapers from the Series, hoping for any mention that Gandil flipped/gave the ball from the final out to McCarty who grounded out to end the Series.

Also - I have sent an email to the White Sox and owner Jerry Reinsdorf to see if he has any interest. I believe they display at their stadium, the Cell, the ball from the 2005 WS victory, their first since 1917, so it would be amazing to display them side by side if I can dig up something.

PS - Anybody from Reading or Milton and want to make a few bucks researching old newspapers at their local libraries?

[yanks12025]

Wouldn't they keep the final out ball. Why give it to lew.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Wouldn't they keep the final out ball. Why give it to lew.

Ask Doug Mientkiewicz

But seriously who knows...that what I will attempt to find out. Today obviously it's a big deal, but then was it? That's the mission, I know back then they had to give foul balls back. But as far as player ettiquette went when the game ended do you know? We assume it would be kept by the team who won but that's just by going by what we see today, back then was a different time.

I found this tidbit as well:

"Before 1920, the baseballs were considered property of the team and fans were expected to throw them back if they were hit into the stands. Sweeping changes were made to the game in 1920 to make the game more fan friendly and to add offense to the game. One of those changes was allowing balls hit into the stands to be kept by the fans.
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Actually the policy changed with the Giants in 1921, and was gradually adopted by other teams over the next few years. Before then, fans had to throw any foul ball back to the field (a practice that was still common in Japan until the late 1990's).

On May 16, 1921, Reuben Berman refused to throw a ball back at a New York Giants game at the Polo Grounds. He was escorted out of the stadium, and later sued the Giants for mental and physical distress and won the court case plus $100. The Giants changed their policy. (Source: The Dickson Baseball Dictionary, 3rd Edition, 2009, p. 703 "Reuben's Rule.")

In Pittsburgh a few months later, 3 fans were arrested for keeping foul balls. The city basically instructed their policemen to stop arresting people for this, and the Pirates changed their policy.

Prior to this, the Cubs allowed fans to keep foul balls as early as 1916. (Once the Phillies played in Chicago and requested compensation for 8 lost balls during batting practice.) An 11-year old boy in 1922 was arrested for this crime in 1922, spent a night in jail, and was exonerated by the judge who dismissed the charges. The judge commented "Such an act on the part of a boy is merely proof that he is following his most natural impulses. It is a thing I would do myself."

SO IF IN FACT THEN THE BALL WAS CONSIDERED PROPERTY OF THE TEAM, AND THE BALL FROM THIS GAME 6 WAS BEING PLAYED IN NEY YORK AND A NATIONAL LEAGUE BALL, DOES THE A.L. PLAYER(GANDIL) GIVE IT TO THE N.L. TEAM, AND THE PLAYER HE WOULD HAVE BEEN CLOSEST TO IS A SLOW FOOTED RIGHT HANDED BATTING CATCHER WHO GROUNDS OUT 2ND TO 1ST TO END THE GAME, LEW MCCARTY. IT IS POSSIBLE. WE'LL SEE WHAT I FIND. MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, BUT YA NEVER KNOW.

[mcgwirecom]

Yeah, I like the fact he made the last out. You could imagine the 1st baseman flipping him the ball or throwing it up in the air or something. But it puts him right at the scene so he would be someone who may have ended up with it. But even if its just a game ball he kept its still a great thing. In the long run if someone wanted to sell a piece like that it all comes down to provenance. Top dollar would only be paid to someone if they obtained it first hand and maybe even had a signed letter or some sort of documentation. The price would start dropping after that. The best you can do, having gotten it second, third or way down the line, is to do the research like you are doing. But it still comes down to does the bidder think this is the last out ball or not. No way to really prove it now.

I bought a ball on Ebay that ahd a note written on it that it was fouled by Al Brancato on 7/10/41. The ball is a correct Harridge AL ball. Bob Feller pitched against the A's that day and went the distance winning his 99th career victory. So the ball had to be thrown by him if the writing on it is to be believed. But since all the facts checked out and the ball is correct I tend to believe thats what it is.

[prewarsports]

I almost wrote this message a few days ago but did not want to come across as a party pooper or anything so I didn't, but I would hate to see you spend tons of time and money in research and not at least hear the other side of the story when it comes to valuing these types of things. Just letting you know from my experience with having sold two game used balls from World Series' in the 1910's. First one, very little provenance and everything just fit (sort of like yours) where I was sure it was the real deal and so did the seller etc. 1918 Game Used Ball with notations and stuff on the ball about George Tyler, sold for about $500-$750 in a bigger auction (about 8-10 years ago).

Now for the biggie, Last April I sold a 1915 Boston Red Sox game used World Series ball from Dick Hoblitzells estate. I had a signed letter from his daughter stating the ball was real and from her father and that he himself had explained it was from game 5 of the series, it was autographed by Hoblitzell etc. It had THE most air tight provenance to any ball from a series I have ever seen or heard of. It had it ALL when it came to reserach and prevenance, so I had high hopes for it and it was in a major auction (REA) where it was paired up with Hoblitzells cleats from the series, a photo of Dick scoring the winning run from the very game the ball was from etc. Long story short, Ball got about $1000 despite having everything you could ever hope for ($1900 total but it included the other items).

So, while your item is very cool and I am sure it is what you have determined it to be, buyers are VERY skeptical of this type of stuff and even when you have all the info you are looking for and then some (like mine did) they do not sell well because at the end of the day you are buying an old baseball and a story and with all the fraud going around (Halper etc) people just do not like shelling out big bucks for this type of stuff.

As a result, I would keep up with the research as long as it is fun and enjoyable for you and cherish the super cool item you have (you seem to very passionate about it and I like that), but dont plan your retirement yet.

Please do not think I am saying anything negative at all, I personally believe your item is probably as you state it is (probably not the last out ball because I have never seen or heard of an opposing player flipping a ball to a guy who made the last out ever in my life as a player/coach/fan spectator/historian, it just doesn't work like that in baseball) BUT, I think you have a really nice historical artifact that definately has ties to the 1917 World Series and you cant beat the price. I just wanted to relay my experiences with you so you can take it for what it is and think about it as you do your research and try to place a realistic value on the item.

Great find and I wish you nothing but the best in your research and eventual sale if that is your plan!

[Shoeless Moe]

...yah I'm more pumped about it, but realize it's not the holy grail.

Like u and others have said when/if I put it up for sale it's all up to the buyers, could be anywhere from $1000 to $2500 is my guess.

The Shoeless Joe tie obviously adds a lil more then any other World Series ball from that era (aside from that other one he was in), so that is nice.

But yep, any and all research will be fun and not too costly.


That's odd your ball went on the lower side at REA, I always think REA always getting the top prices, maybe not always the case. I believe a card talked about on the other side of the board went for way more on Ebay then what it sold for at REA, so u never know.

Heritage seems to be the place for game used balls, as they just sold a 1909 WS Ball for $2150, 1913 (signed by Tommy Connolly) for $4182, and then not to long ago 2 1919 WS balls sold in 2006 & 2010 for $2900 & 3600. So they seem to have the Game Used Ball market over REA.

But for the time being mine is priceless, but that'll change with time I'm sure : )


PS - For the record I too do not think either that it is the last out ball, I think it COULD be, but more then likely it's not and it is just a ball from that Series. I'm not naive, I know it's a long shot and most likely could never be proven. I will however be watching Ken Burns first couple innings of his series to see if he has any footage of last outs for the 1st 20 or so years of the World Series. Otherwise yep it'd come down to reading newspapers from each year and seeing if there is any mention, again a long long long shot. But I'll do it over time, for fun.