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  #1  
Old 11-28-2011, 08:34 PM
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Abravefan11 Abravefan11 is offline
Tim
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The 1911 in each row is how SGC identifies the 460 Series.

No other Evers, Mathewson or Cobb pose is possible with a Sovereign 460 series back, so all of the unidentified Sovereign have to be the super prints.
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  #2  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abravefan11 View Post
The 1911 in each row is how SGC identifies the 460 Series.

No other Evers, Mathewson or Cobb pose is possible with a Sovereign 460 series back, so all of the unidentified Sovereign have to be the super prints.
Tim

This is not so, the unidentified Sovereign data can be anything ? ?

It is my understanding (from the SGC guys), that if you do NOT type in the EXACT pose information, you cannot expect to get the EXACT POP REPORT data
that you are looking for.

Therefore, your data on "1911 Sovereign"....WITHOUT TYPING IN THE EXACT POSE does not necessarily provide you the accurate pop report that you desire.
Your graphic shows two contradictory rows of data.

I don't trust the data you have posted on the Cobb, Evers & Matty that does not provide the pose identification in the DESCRIPTION box.....notwithstanding,
that you took the short-cut by only typing in "1911".


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  #3  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:42 AM
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Ted - I'm confident that the numbers I presented are accurate and not misleading. Your inability and unwillingness to understand them do not make them any less factual but it does preclude this discussion from moving forward.
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  #4  
Old 11-29-2011, 07:58 AM
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There is only one pose for Cobb Evers and Matty in the 1911 460 it has to be Sovereign 460-It could not be anything else.

If they were 350 apple green they would be listed as 1910.

Tim is willing to give you all this information respectfully-its time to try and undersand because even a novice can see this
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Old 11-29-2011, 03:11 PM
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No kidding, Jim......

Most would say I wrote the book on the T206 SOVEREIGN cards with all the research I have done on them these past 5 years.
And, name any one else who has completed this set and has identified all the No-Prints in it ?

Tim

The "UNIDENTIFIED" 1911 SOVEREIGN cards (all brands for that matter) were graded when SGC initially started up. After about
10 months, in SGC's first year in the business, they started IDENTIFYING the various poses on the flip. Therefore, an educated
T206 collector could compare the YEAR with the POSE and be certain of the accuracy.

So, I am sorry, but I cannot trust the identification accuracy of those first run UNIDENTIFIED cards that SGC graded. We have
seen enough mis-labelling on the early flips (both SGC and PSA) that should make anyone very cautious.


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  #6  
Old 11-29-2011, 04:07 PM
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Ted - If the pop reports aren't to be trusted why would you suggest I go there for my own edification?

If we can't trust the pop reports for super print information, then we can't trust it for common cards either. One can't pick and chose the data that best supports their position and cast off the information that conflicts with it. That's called confirmation bias and ends up with distorted or altogether wrong conclusions.

There were no short cuts taken in my look at the SGC pop reports or any other work on the Sovereign 460 or T206 set. If you knew me you would know that's not my nature.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:27 PM
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Ted and Tim,

Great stuff. Regardless of who's right or wrong (or somewhere in-between), the discussions and dissent gets everyone thinking and is very useful and interesting. Based on this thread, I spent all afternoon reading posts on T206's after years of not caring less what back was on any of them. I still don't care enough to collect backs, but very interesting ongoing research on both of your parts nonetheless. Thanks.
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Old 11-29-2011, 05:41 PM
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Default Ted

"Most would say I wrote the book on the T206 SOVEREIGN cards with all the research I have done on them these past 5 years."

For those of you new to Net54, this book by Ted -- like all of the Zanidakis classics -- can be found in the fiction section of Amazon.com.

In your own words -you found the other 5 superprints in 11 months-I would say that is rather quick-1 card about every 60 days.

The group shared accurate lists with you around 2004 or 5 and you started posting them on 54 and getting some new confirmations and all was going good-it was a positive effort forward. At some point you decided all the research was done by you and claimed all the work as your own and you had been doing it since the early 80s. Just funny how all the collector/dealers from the time remember you as the Bowman guy.

That wasn't so bad until you started claiming you completed all these sets and subsets that have cards in them that do not exist. The main one being Nicholls in the Sweet Caporal 649 34 card subset. You insisted the set was 35 cards and you completed the set. When you were called on it, you had sold the set and faked a scan of Nicholls to prove its existance.

The same situation happened with the American Beauty 460 75 card set. When you were called on it you had 35 cards and just happened to sell 40 cards including the Cobb for 4k just before I got to the Philly show to see them.

I would caution Bill Browns super set entries by TZ.

We still respectfully share concrete information with you and you refuse to see it and continue to tell us how many cards you collected and how much you know.

We are just showing the facts how these Sovereign 460 superprints are no more difficult than a good portion of the other Sovereign 460s. It is not true that they are more difficult than the other 460s as once thought.
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Last edited by cfc1909; 11-29-2011 at 05:42 PM.
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