Muhammad Ali Autograph on Angelo Marino REAL?

[autograf]

I live in Louisville....hometown of Ali and the Muhammad Ali center.........I've got and have had a lot of Ali stuff over the years. I'm not an Ali autograph expert though. I've seen tons of in person Ali's and gotten in person Ali's that are complete different from each other. The ravages of Parkinsons have taken it's toll on him. I have a coffee table book that his photographer/handler did quite a while back that my dad got signed in person by Ali at a book signing downtown. He signed it in four places. My dad said he just kept turning the page and signing. One of the signatures looks TOTALLY different from the others even though it was signed at the same time. So.....who knows. I'm not sure what JSA/PSA charges for COA's but if you can get a couple hundred of them certed for $30-$50 per piece and they come back legit, I can imagine you would recoup more than that per piece. If you could sell for $400 instead of $200-$250, it's a no brainer. I wouldn't discount getting them certed by PSA/JSA even though they have their issues too..................

[grandstand69]

Originally Posted by autograf

I live in Louisville....hometown of Ali and the Muhammad Ali center.........I've got and have had a lot of Ali stuff over the years. I'm not an Ali autograph expert though. I've seen tons of in person Ali's and gotten in person Ali's that are complete different from each other. The ravages of Parkinsons have taken it's toll on him. I have a coffee table book that his photographer/handler did quite a while back that my dad got signed in person by Ali at a book signing downtown. He signed it in four places. My dad said he just kept turning the page and signing. One of the signatures looks TOTALLY different from the others even though it was signed at the same time. So.....who knows. I'm not sure what JSA/PSA charges for COA's but if you can get a couple hundred of them certed for $30-$50 per piece and they come back legit, I can imagine you would recoup more than that per piece. If you could sell for $400 instead of $200-$250, it's a no brainer. I wouldn't discount getting them certed by PSA/JSA even though they have their issues too..................

Thanks for your input. Believe me I've thought about submitting 25-40 at a time, however, my wallet keeps talking to me reminding my business side that I HAVE 300+ of these not to mention a batch of artist proofs #d /50. 300+ of the same item is a lot to move if my only outlet is ebay. I would imagine I'd flood the market fairly fast if I didn't stagger the sales over the year. I need to find a buyer who can buy 10-20 pieces at a time who have other outlets. I know with JSA COA or even PSA these should fetch a respectable amount. All his other 29x26" Lithos are $750-$2k and up. If you have any other thoughts or know a buyer who would do a trade/cash or cash deal please let me know. I thank you for your comments.

[jcmtiger]

You have so many of these Lithos. If I had them I would put one on ebay and see what happens.

Joe

[chaddurbin]

i would put up one with a cert and one w/o to test the water...but OP might be looking to move them in larger lots, like 10-15 to other dealers who would resell them.

[drc]

I still think cosigning one or two to one (or more) of the major auction houses will help you to sell them in the future. If Lelands, Heritage, Legendary or such auction one, you'll have a much easier time convincing the general public that they're on the up and up. You then may no longer have to get the rest of the posters by certed-- the Lelands or Legendary auction catalogs writeups will help establish for the public that the posters overall are legit.

I still think getting an eBay PSA quick opinion on one is good start. Start a new account if that makes things easier.

Obviously, if the Ali signatures are legimate, the Marino angle makes the issue less than simple.

[drc]

Obviously, it's nice to have the photos of Ali signing. Without those a lot people would be that much more suspicious.

What would be great too would be some sort of paper documentation or other evidence that Ali was hired to sign these, or at least sign for your dad/grandfather. I assume there was an agreement/contract, payment check.

Documentation/evidence your dad/grandfather had Ali do a signing + your photos of Ali Signing posters with the same design = good for cause. If you had a copy of the actual contract for the signing, that would be hard to beat.

[grandstand69]

Originally Posted by drc

Obviously, it's nice to have the photos of Ali signing. Without those a lot people would be that much more suspicious.

What would be great too would be some sort of paper documentation or other evidence that Ali was hired to sign these, or at least sign for your dad/grandfather. I assume there was an agreement/contract, payment check.

Documentation/evidence your dad/grandfather had Ali do a signing + your photos of Ali Signing posters with the same design = good for cause. If you had a copy of the actual contract for the signing, that would be hard to beat.

This is one of the first things I tried searching for seeing I was most familiar with Bullpen then my family. All we could locate was a handwritten note on Marino letterhead saying he can't make it to a meeting. In the note he apologizes and gave 7-10 lithographs (no sports figure auto) all being the #1 in a series. I'm not sure if it was before or after this event. My grandpa was in charge of the business, pops in an Engineer who was only involved when needed and then more so towards the end when gramps just got to old. Record keeping wasn't anyone's strong suite. I believe early 90s was a handshake and
Cash transaction for everyone, including the athlete. Anyway great ideas all the way around. I'm just going to get one or two out there and see if psa or jsa is willing to authenticate a Marino piece. That's been my biggist concern from start of this post.

[Ringking]

Originally Posted by drc

Obviously, it's nice to have the photos of Ali signing. Without those a lot people would be that much more suspicious.

What would be great too would be some sort of paper documentation or other evidence that Ali was hired to sign these, or at least sign for your dad/grandfather. I assume there was an agreement/contract, payment check.

Documentation/evidence your dad/grandfather had Ali do a signing + your photos of Ali Signing posters with the same design = good for cause. If you had a copy of the actual contract for the signing, that would be hard to beat.

I don't think that really matters. I read a interview with one of the FBI agents that talked about Stan Sports when they were busted. Stan sports had photos with every ball player in all sports, yet the agent said they doubted a signing ever happened between players and the store.

Kinda like on ebay, when a photo shows a person signing a item with a blue marker, yet the item they are selling is signed in black, red, green or some other color....

Take the photo with a grain of salt, and when dealing with the first family of forgery's, my advise would be to avoid it at all costs... Afterall, they got into the forgery business when they realized if the "art" had the players signatures on them, they could get more...

Caveat emptor BUYER BEWARE