E90-1 Joe Jackson (PSA 2) REAL?

[KennyJ1970]

Thank you, Scott, for bringing to our attention that these cards were not authentic. I manage a store whose main business is buying gold and silver, however, in this economic climate, many people have brought other items into our store, including sports memorabilia. We don't buy baseball cards that are not graded by reputable grading companies to prevent buying fakes. I was obviously not aware enough that even these can be faked. I started investigating the possibility that these could be counterfeited after your message to us, and contacted Ebay, who looked at our listings and assured us that these cards were fine. They told us that they get many complaints about fake items all the time, and that we had nothing to worry about. We did what we thought was right at the time with the info we were given. It certainly was a learning experience, albeit an expensive one. I am now in the process of taking legal action against the seller, as we have his info from the purchase. Hopefully we can get our money back, and we will follow through with prosecution. Kenny

[vintagecpa]

Kenny, I appreciate your post. Let me bring some more information to at least the E90-1 Jackson. The E90-1 Jackson that is the reprint has the same PSA certification number as a PSA 2 E90-1 Jackson that sold in the March 2009 Mile High Auction (see link). I would assume that there couldn't have been too many owners between the time it sold in the Mile High Auction in 2009 and from when you took possession of the card. I just figured it might be useful information. (The smaller picture is from the Mile High Auction and the good Jackson. The larger picture is from the Ebay auction with the reprint.)

http://www.milehighcardco.com/LotDet...px?lotid=12178

[KennyJ1970]

Thanks, Mike. Quite a difference in those two, I'd say. I guess i was a real fool on this one. I'm used to buying vintage coins, graded and ungraded, and I know what to look for in those, but I really dropped the ball on these.

[barrysloate]

Kenny- I think the reason the Jackson was brought to a coin dealer was for exactly that reason: that you would have less expertise than a baseball card dealer, who would spot the fake more easily.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Kenny- I think the reason the Jackson was brought to a coin dealer was for exactly that reason: that you would have less expertise than a baseball card dealer, who would spot the fake more easily.

Given the proliferation of Chinese PCGS counterfeits onto the coin market several years ago, I would think that coin dealers would be MORE vigilant at inspecting holders and flips that your typical baseball card enthusiast.

http://www.pcgs.com/Articles/Detail/5286
http://coins.about.com/od/coingradin...-PCGS-Slab.htm
http://forums.collectors.com/message...hreadid=647774

[vintagecpa]

I think what concerns me the most is this mornings auction. I try to put myself in the sellers shoes. If I had just found out on Saturday that 2 or 3 of my expensive baseball cards were most likely reprints in fake PSA holders, I don't think I would be listing an $8k baseball on my Sunday morning without doing a ton of research. The ball might be legit, but you can't ignore the sticker.

[dstraate]

I'm just not convinced by the seller either. It seems to me equally probable that a person might:

Try a pilot scam with a few low dollar cards, see that it works, and put your feedback to work by simultaneously listing three huge profit items: Jackson, Mantle, and Ruth. When your cover is blown by a relatively obscure message board, create a handle, say all the right things, and wait for the dust to settle.

I just don't believe you buy that Jax if your business is coins and you "don't know much about cards"

EG "John, I know you collect and sell cards, but I've got an opportunity for you. This is one of the toughest and most valuable coins in the hobby. I've just gotta get it off my hands. If you put down 5K on it right now, you'll probably double your money tomorrow on Ebay". If you where John, what would you say?!

This isn't to say that honest sellers don't get duped, but scammers always have alibi when they get uncovered, and it usually starts with "I don't know anything about it".

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by KennyJ1970

Thank you, Scott, for bringing to our attention that these cards were not authentic....

My pleasure. I hope this works out for you.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Kenny,

I also spoke with you via email and you seem very friendly and sincere. However, after that, someone named Danny Z. started emailing me stating that I didn't know what the heck I was talking about, asking me what were my credentials, blah, blah, blah. He had a very crappy attitutude. I don't know if he is an employee of yours, a business partner or whatever, but he was a real JERK!

Like other members here, I was only trying to get this this listing removed so nobody got taken advantage of. Anyway, he wouldn't shut up about it and I finally said, "If you think I am wrong, then why did you remove the listing? If you think I am wrong, then GROW A SET OF BALLS and re-list the card! His repsonse was, "The card will be re-listed." Obviously the card wasn't relisted.

Anyway, after me and several others pointed out the reasons that the card was fake and Mike posted photos of the real card, I'm just curious what Danny has to say now?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Kenny,

One other thing. You stated in your email to me, "I bought these items from a cutomer who has sold us other items in our store, and have had no problems whatsoever."

If that is the case, would you mind sharing with the rest of the board the name of the individual that sold you these fakes so we don't get taken advantage of by the same guy? Your help would be greatly appreciated.

[KennyJ1970]

I really want to let everyone know about this guy, however, I am not allowed to give his name by law. Every item we take into the store has to have a purchase order, which is protected by confidentiality laws. I hate that in this case, but I am not allowed without a police report. All I can say is that he is a 55 yr. old from northeast Ohio. I know that sucks, but I am talking to the police on Monday, and if I can say anything else, I absolutely will. I apologize for Danny. He was very upset with finding this out, and that he had just lost a bundle of money. No excuse for how he spoke to some of you, but he is...abrasive sometimes.

[YankeeCollector]

Originally Posted by KennyJ1970

I really want to let everyone know about this guy, however, I am not allowed to give his name by law. Every item we take into the store has to have a purchase order, which is protected by confidentiality laws. I hate that in this case, but I am not allowed without a police report. All I can say is that he is a 55 yr. old from northeast Ohio. I know that sucks, but I am talking to the police on Monday, and if I can say anything else, I absolutely will. I apologize for Danny. He was very upset with finding this out, and that he had just lost a bundle of money. No excuse for how he spoke to some of you, but he is...abrasive sometimes.

I dont get it. You said you purchased it from this guy. I dont understand how that is confidential. I would expose this guy for the scum that he is.

[KennyJ1970]

Originally Posted by YankeeCollector

I dont get it. You said you purchased it from this guy. I dont understand how that is confidential. I would expose this guy for the scum that he is.

According to the law, if someone had something stolen and came to us, we can't even release the info to the victim of the theft without a police report.

[vintagecpa]

Hey Kenny, I assume all these cards came from the same seller, but the 1952 Topps Roy Campanella PSA 8 that you sold a few days ago for $3,550 looks suspicious also.

Here is a link to your card you sold on EBay on 11/7/11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-ROY-CAM...4#ht_518wt_689

Here is a link to the same card being sold at the August, 2008 Goodwin Auction (at least same certification number)

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=5552

From my semi-untrained eye, it doesn't appear to be the same card. I would like a board member with more experience with 1952 Topps and PSA slabs to give a better opinion.

Finally, the same card and certification number was listed for sale on Craigs List in Louisville on November 1.

http://louisville.craigslist.org/clt/2680098176.html

I wish I had better news. Hopefully, this will all be helpful info when you file your police report.

Mike

[Runscott]

Ugghh.. Mike, once again, not only are the cards definitely different, but the fonts and letter locations are way off on the PSA label.

Another fraudulent card.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by vintagecpa

Hey Kenny, I assume all these cards came from the same seller, but the 1952 Topps Roy Campanella PSA 8 that you sold a few days ago for $3,550 looks suspicious also.

Here is a link to your card you sold on EBay on 11/7/11

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-ROY-CAM...4#ht_518wt_689

Here is a link to the same card being sold at the August, 2008 Goodwin Auction (at least same certification number)

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=5552

From my semi-untrained eye, it doesn't appear to be the same card. I would like a board member with more experience with 1952 Topps and PSA slabs to give a better opinion.

Finally, the same card and certification number was listed for sale on Craigs List in Louisville on November 1.

http://louisville.craigslist.org/clt/2680098176.html

I wish I had better news. Hopefully, this will all be helpful info when you file your police report.

Mike

Mike,

Good catch. They are definitely NOT the same card although they share the same serial number.

Card from Goodwin Auction:


Card from Kenny:


The real one (Goodwin) has a noticable tilt.