The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded"

[barrysloate]

Well, they need an angle to sell this so of course they're playing the race card. We're just picking on them because we're white and they're black. And outright lying doesn't hurt either. They claim that various message boards (meaning us) have been hurling racial epithets at them. Nobody here has ever made even one racial comment towards them; the only negative criticism we've expressed is that they are committing fraud.

Then they take another predictable route: since Mastro is under investigation, he can't possibly be trusted to authenticate it. And since PSA graded the Gretzky Wagner, they too wouldn't know if it's real. Just play out the bullsh*t angle and everything will be fine.

And I knew they would go back to the Connelly fellow because he was the only one to support them the first time around. I hope that on the day this card is scheduled to be auctioned, the feds are there with three pairs of handcuffs. What a crock of sh*t.

[z28jd]

The funny thing about them playing the race card is they are trying to sell the card so how does it even make sense to say those rich white men who run the hobby won't buy the card from them because of their color? I could see them playing the race card if they had a mint condition Wagner and wanted it to be recognized as the best one in the hobby but they are trying to sell the card to these rich white men who want to own a Wagner, you could probably find hundreds of them to bid on a real one and they wouldn't care who owns it. There has never been an auction description for an authentic Wagner that sold that included the color of the seller in the description just for full disclosure

Playing the race card makes absolutely zero sense in this situation and I don't know how they convince people to write stories based on that premise. They're basically saying these rich white men refuse to give them money for the holy grail of baseball cards, not based on the card's authenticity but based on the color of the seller's skin.

[bosoxfan]

Originally Posted by z28jd

The funny thing about them playing the race card is they are trying to sell the card so how does it even make sense to say those rich white men who run the hobby won't buy the card from them because of their color? I could see them playing the race card if they had a mint condition Wagner and wanted it to be recognized as the best one in the hobby but they are trying to sell the card to these rich white men who want to own a Wagner, you could probably find hundreds of them to bid on a real one and they wouldn't care who owns it. There has never been an auction description for an authentic Wagner that sold that included the color of the seller in the description just for full disclosure

Playing the race card makes absolutely zero sense in this situation and I don't know how they convince people to write stories based on that premise. They're basically saying these rich white men refuse to give them money for the holy grail of baseball cards, not based on the card's authenticity but based on the color of the seller's skin.

Truer words have never been spoken

[drc]

No one here knows the racial makeup up of T206 Wagner consignors overall. As noted the identities are rarely revealed to the bidders. I don't know. You don't know. The gentlemen from Cincinnati don't know. The reporters from the New York Daily News don't know. As consignments are mostly done through the mail, the auction houses don't know the races of most of their consignors. Who says black men haven't before successfully consigned or gotten graded by PSA a T206 Wagner before? Someone's claim that no black men have successfully consigned before a T206 Wagner to REA or Legendary or whatever big wig auction or house or gotten a T206 Wagner graded/authenticated by PSA or SGC is conjecture. And not only is it conjecture, it could also be wrong.

[barrysloate]

If that Wagner were real, its owners would be amazed at how many white collectors would be happy to discuss with them a possible purchase. They would be equally amazed at how many white consignment directors would gladly work out a favorable deal with them to get it in their auctions. They might even take those two gentlemen out to dinner. If it were real all racial tensions would thaw in a nanosecond.

[Denali]

I have been a member of Net54 for a few months but haven't posted yet because I am not sure whether I want to get back into collecting yet. My interest would be in T206 era tobacco packs.

Anyway, I came across this 2002 Cincinnati Enquirer article online that I found to be intriguing:

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/200...gner_card.html

The article stated that the card was claimed to have been picked up at an "estate sale".

Is it related?

[cobblove]

Hey I have that card!!!!!!!!!!
One sec its with my 1990 score baseball cards. Didnt know it was worth millions. But I did pay 1800.00 one night when I was a sleep. Dont look at the front though look at the back please!!
Oh and can I have 1,000,000.00 I work very hard some times. Easy street please!

[tiger8mush]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

Well, they need an angle to sell this so of course they're playing the race card. We're just picking on them because we're white and they're black. And outright lying doesn't hurt either. They claim that various message boards (meaning us) have been hurling racial epithets at them. Nobody here has ever made even one racial comment towards them; the only negative criticism we've expressed is that they are committing fraud.

Then they take another predictable route: since Mastro is under investigation, he can't possibly be trusted to authenticate it. And since PSA graded the Gretzky Wagner, they too wouldn't know if it's real. Just play out the bullsh*t angle and everything will be fine.

And I knew they would go back to the Connelly fellow because he was the only one to support them the first time around. I hope that on the day this card is scheduled to be auctioned, the feds are there with three pairs of handcuffs. What a crock of sh*t.

wow Barry, in the ~6 years of me being part of net54, i think thats the most worked up I remember you getting!

[barrysloate]

Rob- when these guys first surfaced on the board- I believe it was Mr. Cobb who posted here many years ago- I was equally agitated. There are so many things about them that get me worked up. However, I agree I'm normally a whole lot calmer... I forgot to take my Propofol this morning.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by tiger8mush

wow Barry, in the ~6 years of me being part of net54, i think thats the most worked up I remember you getting!

Barry's absolutely correct. I've recounted the story a number of times, but to wit, I was there when they first purchased the card at a show in Cincinnati and it was obvious from the beginning that the two of them were con men. They knew (and admitted) it was fake then and they know it's fake now. The most remarkable aspect of the entire saga, however, is how far the story has been drawn out and how many resources various local and national news outlets have expended on it. Cobb and Edwards bought a reprinted T206 Wagner off of a dealer's table for $1. End of story. No other footnotes required.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by MW1

Barry's absolutely correct. I've recounted the story a number of times, but to wit, I was there when they first purchased the card at a show in Cincinnati and it was obvious from the beginning that the two of them were con men. They knew (and admitted) it was fake then and they know it's fake now. The most remarkable aspect of the entire saga, however, is how far the story has been drawn out and how many resources various local and national news outlets have expended on it. Cobb and Edwards bought a reprinted T206 Wagner off of a dealer's table for $1. End of story. No other footnotes required.

Michael, if you really want to have some fun with this, buy a copy of the same reprint they used and create a page showing close-ups of your print patterns and comparing them to those on the scammer card. Send it to the media - they would have a field day with exposing the scammers.

[g_vezina_c55]

i spoke last week end at the MTL card show with the man at ACA who authenticated this Wagner and i asked several question about the card to the authenticator.

All the answer i received from the grader didn t persuade me it is a real card. I continue to think it is a fake. He said to me that ebay will permit the sale of the card in april on ebay website.

i have some difficult to explane his answer in english but his explanation is it is not the honus wagner card like we all know... he said it is another version of the wagner.... anyway

for me it is not a real Wagner T206.

[fkw]

this story aint even funny anymore..

The card is so bad and easy to spot as not being from the 1910 Era let alone related to T206 (not lithographed) its borderline stupidity on the medias part, that keeps it in the news.
Its not even a counterfeit, its a reprint Ive seen many times (1985-90s Era one) that is badly doctored to look old.
A counterfeit is usually much better, and made to fool. This is a novelty piece for amusement...

that "Rosary Dot Matrix" page is funny though, they are trying to PROVE its not authentic (w/o even knowing it) with that crap

love the "rainbow printed" caption closeup, thats all the proof you need to know its not lithographed... lol

[E93]

These guys are relentless. THey sure are putting a lot of energy into what will either amount to nothing (no sale), or a fraud charge and time in prison.
JimB

[scooter729]

Well, direct from their website:

"The Cobb/Edwards card past all test giving by the VSC40FS machine."

It "past" all test. Sounds to me like it went right past the test alright....

[barrysloate]

If it goes on ebay, there will be enough people contacting them with negative feedback and ebay will be forced to shut it down.

On their website, Cobbs and Edwards post that despite all the negative publicity, nobody has come up with the facts to dispute its authenticity. And that of course is an absolute lie. They've been told on countless occasions the card appears to be a reprint glued to a real Piedmont back, and they've been told repeatedly that the paper is wrong, the colors are washed out, the resolution is poor, the fonts aren't right, among other things. They instead choose to tune out the facts and create ones of their own.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Michael, if you really want to have some fun with this, buy a copy of the same reprint they used and create a page showing close-ups of your print patterns and comparing them to those on the scammer card. Send it to the media - they would have a field day with exposing the scammers.

I have to admit that now I'm not so sure. I mean, the card has a FACTORY DIST. NUMBER on the reverse side so now I'm thinking it might be real after all.

See for yourself: http://www.honuswagnerauction.com/wp...ck-revise3.jpg

[Mdoe]

Originally Posted by MW1

I have to admit that now I'm not so sure. I mean, the card has a FACTORY DIST. NUMBER on the reverse side so now I'm thinking it might be real after all.

See for yourself: http://www.honuswagnerauction.com/wp...ck-revise3.jpg

The issue has never been the back- generally accepted that the back is real and the front is a reprint affixed to an authentic back. Also, there are reprints out there with factory numbers.

[MW1]

Originally Posted by Mdoe

The issue has never been the back- generally accepted that the back is real and the front is a reprint affixed to an authentic back. Also, there are reprints out there with factory numbers.

Yes. I know. I was being facetious.