Ruth Card

[drc]

1933 Goudey Ruths are on the list of cards I tell people to be wary of buying online unless it's graded. Though that's due to the proliferation of fakes.

[Matthew H]

I bought a 34 Gehrig from him before with no problems.... But, the only reason I bought it from him is because the same card I was bidding on in another ebay auction ended early due to an offline offer by him.

I learned since then that he acquires many cards this way. I've been able to spot some of his stuff in other ended auctions, with less flowery descriptions of course.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by drc

1933 Goudey Ruths are on the list of cards I tell people to be wary of buying online unless it's graded. Though that's due to the proliferation of fakes.

Agreed. I always thought Goudeys were super-simple to i.d. as real or fake...until I picked up a yellow portrait WWG Ruth. It looked different from Goudeys in many respects, and even different from other WWG cards I had handled - gloss, ink, registration, paper quality. The only thing that looked totally 'right' was the card thickness and the typical 'bleed through' that can't be forged.

I sent it to SGC and they confirmed it was real.

[Runscott]

After reading the opinions of Leon and others that this guy's cards are safe to buy raw, I considered bidding on the red Cobb that's about to end. Looking at the back very closely, it really looks like it's missing a little paper.

I don't think the slabbed value of this card is going to come close to what it sells for - just something to consider.

I wouldn't bring this up as the auction's still live, but this card isn't slipping by anyone and this might save someone some grief if they didn't spot the back problems.

[Leon]

Let me add a little to my statement. While I believe the seller is a legit seller I also believe he sells ungraded to get more money for his cards. He does this, imo, by getting people to think the cards are better conditioned than they are (usually). As we all know, what can look like a 6 from a small scan can easily be a 1-3 from almost unseen technical issues. It's a game and he is winning it.

I basically said the same thing in my first post

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Leon

Let me add a little to my statement. While I believe the seller is a legit seller I also believe he sells ungraded to get more money for his cards. He does this, imo, by getting people to think the cards are better conditioned than they are (usually). As we all know, what can look like a 6 from a small scan can easily be a 1-3 from almost unseen technical issues. It's a game and he is winning it.

I basically said the same thing in my first post

Yep, you did good. I sort of wish I had bid on that Ruth.

[iggyman]

Originally Posted by Runscott

The only thing that looked totally 'right' was the card thickness and the typical 'bleed through' that can't be forged.

I've seen known Goudey reprints (including Ruth) with the "bleed through" on the back side. Thus, judging a Goudey authentic, because it has a wet sheet transfer is a dangerous game. The "bleed through" can and has been forged.

Lovely Day...

[Bridwell]

I think they have an interesting strategy to buy graded cards with nice eye appeal, crack them out, and then resell as an authentic raw card. There was a raw T206 from the same seller in another post. Seems like a legit strategy.

Personally, I wouldn't pay that much for an ungraded card so not sure they can make a profit on expensive cards like this one. Nevertheless, some people would rather have a nice raw card with good eye appeal.

[Anthony S.]

This is what the card looked like before it was cracked out and photographed by a passing weather satellite. Same card.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

This is what the card looked like before it was cracked out and photographed by a passing weather satellite. Same card.

Anthony, that is downright scary. Looks a heckuva lot different up close

From his original description: "beautiful original sheen, "flawless" factory finish, and has a light horizontal crease."

Thank you - I won't be bidding on anything this guy sells.

[iggyman]

Great catch Anthony (both on the Ruth and the Cobb)! Thought it was a home run, but you snagged it at the wall! Score one for the good guys. I don't think I've ever won anything from Great Lakes Shell Game Auction House, but I sure would be leary of bidding on anything in the future (disclaimer: unless, I really really needed it).

On another tangent........Scott, perhaps I need to be enlighten, but Goudeys don't have "bleed through" they have "wet sheet transfers". Have I been drinking kool-aid all these years??? Looks like we need a poll.

Lovely Day...

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by iggyman

I've seen known Goudey reprints (including Ruth) with the "bleed through" on the back side. Thus, judging a Goudey authentic, because it has a wet sheet transfer is a dangerous game. The "bleed through" can and has been forged.

Lovely Day...

Not the same thing as a wet sheet transfer. But you have a point regarding true forgeries. I've never seen reprints where they attempted to add bleed through, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's being done.

If I remember correctly, there was a set of Goudey reprints created in the early '60s that when 'aged' looks pretty convincing. The great Goudey forger of the early 2000's, Feldman, offered to send me a free one, just to prove to me that he wasn't actually forging cards. I should have taken him up on it, but didn't want to encourage him.