VCP rant

[barrysloate]

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

[jp1216]

I'm all for VCP showing BIN prices, but only using actual auctions to determine averages.

[vintagecpa]

I've subscribed to VCP off and on for several years. Although they aren't perfect in terms of capturing every sale, they run a very nice business. I don't think anyone makes a purchasing decision based simply on VCP average. There is often one BIN or other auction sale that can greatly skew the average, especially with cards that don't have many sales. When I am thinking of purchasing a card, I do appreciate seeing the wide range a card might sell for. You will especially see this when looking at the PSA 1 cards.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry, I think the counterpoint would be that with an auction if you have two buyers who place a "top all" high max bid and the item then goes for way more than it is "really worth". There is never going to be asolution that works for everyone nor one that even works for most, but VCP is what it is and if there is value to the customer in that then that is all there needs to be, I suppose.

[terjung]

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by terjung

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

Exactly!!!! Well said..........

[barrysloate]

Brian and I said exactly the same thing a minute apart.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I think there is a litte confusion. VCP DOES capture BINs in their data.

My complaint was that for some reason, several of my BINs were missed in the month of February. Bobby's explanation (on page 2) was "At the beginning of the year eBay decided to change their API system and of course as we all know about them they failed to tell their licensees about it so there was a time period we where not pulling all the data. Since then we were finally able to implement a workaround in March and the reports of missing transaction dropped dramatically."

I can understand that. Things happen. My beef is the fact that I pointed it out to him and his response was basically, "Tough crap, it's too late."

[Rich Klein]

from B&L, and correct me if I'm wrong -- but the software designer is making decisions on what to do with the data from the B&L auction.

If so, on a global level that brings into issue, who really "owns" the data from a B&L auction, is it the auction house or is it the software provider.

I'm just curious as to your opinion on that part of this puzzle.

Rich

I missed Leon's response, and I agree with what he did.

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Originally Posted by terjung

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

+1, these are actual sales and they should be recorded the people receiving the data should get all the relevant information and if you choose not to use some yourself that is up to each individual.

By the Way, David James, why have you not learned that name calling is for children, once again you show your true colors, stick to the subject.

Lee

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by bowlingshoegiverouterguy

By the Way, David James, why have you not learned that name calling is for children, once again you show your true colors, stick to the subject.

Lee, you're probably right. Name calling is for children. Then again, isn't hurling insults? Perhaps you should go re-read the thread and you'll see he hurled insults before I called names. Not to say that two wrongs make a right, but I'm just curious why you're calling me out for the name calling, but not calling him out for the inuslts? Well?

[Cy2009]

I don't understand why people don't want BINs on VCP. This service is not just for buyers. Sellers would also like to know what all of the prices are. Let me throw out two examples.

1) What if an auction was set up with a price where only one person bid on the card. That is just as good/bad as a BIN. But the BIN would not be recorded whereas the pseudo BIN is recorded.

2) What if you wanted to sell a card at a certain grade and, say, in the past 5 years there have been three auctions with an average price of $200 per card. And there have been three BINs with an average of $350 per card. Are these BINs not relevant since the same number of people bought this card?

Sellers also should know if there are people out there willing to pay a higher price to make sure that they get the card that they want at the grade. This would help a seller not having to settle on a lower price when statistics show that people are buying this card at his grade.

Finally, someone pointed out that he didn't want BINs because they don't reflect the market. This is confusing. If a card is sold at any venue, isn't that part of the market? There are many cards that have four sales or less in a particular grade over the past five years. Any sale would be significant for those statistics. So all data is relevant.

Cy

[GoldenAge50s]

I, too, feel that BIN's are just as relevant as an auction for VCP data. Either one can be market high or market low---it all averages out!

It is up to the USER of the data to figure out what pertains to his situation at the time, but to not have in ALL sales renders the data INCOMPLETE!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry,

Indeed it is a fair point. However, if it was a legitimate sale, shouldn't it still be captured no matter the price?

Let's turn your scenario around. Let's say there is a 1967 Topps PSA 10 common with a pop of only 3 and two set registry guys get in a bidding war over it on ebay and the cards sells for $500. However, the last two only sold for $100. Should that sale be counted? In other words, just becasue two idiots drive up the price of a card significantly over fair market value, do you not count it?

Edited to say: Although worded differently, Rhett beat me to the same point.

[barrysloate]

I agree David with your example. In your case, the BIN's you bought were within a reasonable market range, and reflect what you were willing to pay for the cards. I guess in the end it's Bobby's decision how he wants to gather and use the data.

Edited to add I see Rhett's point too. Bobby has to set the rules for his site, and it's fair to ask him why he doesn't use the BIN's.

[barrysloate]

Maybe at the end of the day VCP should record every transaction, both auction and BIN, and leave it up to the reader to determine what represents a typical transaction, and what might be the result of a pair of snipes, or an overpriced BIN. It's not VCP's job to interpret prices, but just to post them. The job of making sense out of them falls on the shoulders of the subscribers. Like any data, they need to be analyzed.