VCP rant

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Nobody is asking for or expecting perfection. Sure, some mistakes are going to be made. But when 4 of the 5 cards I checked did not show up in VCP, that's a major problem. Sorry if you don't get that. Also, if Bobby would have responded back and acknowledged the mistake and took action to correct the mistake, this thread probably wouldn't have been started.



VCP's business it to record actual sales, no matter if it is a BIN or not. If they want to exclude BINs then so be it, but they should state that. I could care less if you disregard BINs or not. The fact of the matter is that they are still transactions and should be recorded by VCP as we are paying for that information.

"We" are not paying for that information. Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Really? Their business is to record sales? Where are all the results from the tables at the National? They track auctions, which is what matters. The rest is just noise.

But you are right - you should cancel VCP. I'm sure your four BIN transactions are accurately reflected in the current SMR or other resource...hahahahahaha!

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by Bosox Blair

Most people with any sense disregard BINs entirely. Sorry if you don't get that.

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Agreed. I understand people say that BINs are easy to manipulate and should not be included, but so are auctions (shill bidding). Where do you draw the line? VCP’s business is to capture all eBay sales – auction or BIN – and the user can take that information and make their own buying/selling decisions.

On the card in question, I paid $750 and I felt good about the purchase. Did I overpay? Perhaps some might thinks so. If so, it wasn’t by much. I thought it was fair considering that 6 of the 10 sales that VCP recorded sold for what I paid or more (SGC 50 and PSA 4 combined). Either way, the sale should have been captured.

[barrysloate]

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

[jp1216]

I'm all for VCP showing BIN prices, but only using actual auctions to determine averages.

[vintagecpa]

I've subscribed to VCP off and on for several years. Although they aren't perfect in terms of capturing every sale, they run a very nice business. I don't think anyone makes a purchasing decision based simply on VCP average. There is often one BIN or other auction sale that can greatly skew the average, especially with cards that don't have many sales. When I am thinking of purchasing a card, I do appreciate seeing the wide range a card might sell for. You will especially see this when looking at the PSA 1 cards.

[rhettyeakley]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry, I think the counterpoint would be that with an auction if you have two buyers who place a "top all" high max bid and the item then goes for way more than it is "really worth". There is never going to be asolution that works for everyone nor one that even works for most, but VCP is what it is and if there is value to the customer in that then that is all there needs to be, I suppose.

[terjung]

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

[3-2-count]

Originally Posted by terjung

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

Exactly!!!! Well said..........

[Sterling Sports Auctions]

Originally Posted by terjung

Data is data. It should be up to the person using the data to interpret and to filter what is important to them. Categorically removing (or not including) valid sales such as BINs biases the data.

+1, these are actual sales and they should be recorded the people receiving the data should get all the relevant information and if you choose not to use some yourself that is up to each individual.

By the Way, David James, why have you not learned that name calling is for children, once again you show your true colors, stick to the subject.

Lee

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

One problem I see with VCP using BIN's is in a situation where a seller has a card priced far above current market, and for whatever reason a collector chooses to buy it. Since VCP is supposed to reflect the market, is that BIN necessarily reflective of it? It's possible that that transaction was double what any similar card might sell for, and would therefore not be useful information. I'm not actually sure myself about this, just think it's a fair point.

Barry,

Indeed it is a fair point. However, if it was a legitimate sale, shouldn't it still be captured no matter the price?

Let's turn your scenario around. Let's say there is a 1967 Topps PSA 10 common with a pop of only 3 and two set registry guys get in a bidding war over it on ebay and the cards sells for $500. However, the last two only sold for $100. Should that sale be counted? In other words, just becasue two idiots drive up the price of a card significantly over fair market value, do you not count it?

Edited to say: Although worded differently, Rhett beat me to the same point.

[barrysloate]

I agree David with your example. In your case, the BIN's you bought were within a reasonable market range, and reflect what you were willing to pay for the cards. I guess in the end it's Bobby's decision how he wants to gather and use the data.

Edited to add I see Rhett's point too. Bobby has to set the rules for his site, and it's fair to ask him why he doesn't use the BIN's.

[barrysloate]

Maybe at the end of the day VCP should record every transaction, both auction and BIN, and leave it up to the reader to determine what represents a typical transaction, and what might be the result of a pair of snipes, or an overpriced BIN. It's not VCP's job to interpret prices, but just to post them. The job of making sense out of them falls on the shoulders of the subscribers. Like any data, they need to be analyzed.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by 3-2-count

Blair with all do respect I do pay attention to BIN's on the Bay and know of a few key sellers in the market who are actually board members here who have their product priced very fair. I have also bought many a card at a BIN price which was priced accurately. If these are sales made I definitely want to know about them. Agreed that many if not most Ebay sellers display their product at ridiculous prices, but for the ones who do not it is unfair to group them with those high priced sellers you speak of. My two cents!!

Hi Tony,

As you know, my friend, I have the greatest of respect for you. You are one of the good guys. Hope all is well with you!

The other side of the BIN problem is the seller who doesn't know the market and lists his card for far less than the real market value. The card will likely be bought in under an hour. So what? Can I get another one for that price? No. Will anyone lower their price if I tell them one guy listed that card cheap last week and it sold to the first guy who saw it? No.

To say that a service that fails to tell me about a few of these transactions is "a joke" is...well...a joke (that is directed to the OP, not you).

Cheers,

Blair

[3-2-count]

Hi Blair,
Hope all is well. Constructive conversation is healthy even if we disagree my friend. That being said the name calling you've received in this thread by the other N54 member is totally uncalled for and unacceptable. I don't go for that crap either. Happy Collecting!!

Very Best, Tony

[BobbyVCP]

We worked with both Simple and Create in supplying both of them with the format in order to supply VCP with the feed from the auction houses. We did this in order for the auction houses to take advantage of our large membership Want lists. We can just as easily create a code to go and grab the information from the auction houses after the auction has ended and post to VCP. We feel it is a slap in our face that one of them choose to charge us for something we provided them to use to benefit their customers and provide to future ones as well as a selling tool.