The Cincinnati Wagner "Graded"

[hunterdutchess]

How long before the card gets listed on ebay? I can't wait to see the description. Here is a bogus graded Wagner :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...#ht_789wt_1185

$200?

[Tsaiko]

Originally Posted by hunterdutchess

How long before the card gets listed on ebay? I can't wait to see the description. Here is a bogus graded Wagner :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...#ht_789wt_1185

$200?

Good lord.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ur0g-R7ZODY

[E93]

Originally Posted by hunterdutchess

How long before the card gets listed on ebay? I can't wait to see the description. Here is a bogus graded Wagner :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...#ht_789wt_1185

$200?

Looks like a color copy of a real Wagner pasted on a real piedmont back.
JimB

[cobblove]

"
How long before the card gets listed on ebay? I can't wait to see the description. Here is a bogus graded Wagner :

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Honus-Wagner...#ht_789wt_1185

$200?""


LOL that one looks more convincing than the straight up fake cincy card. Both are fake. But damn that cincy one is nasty fake.

[Vintagedegu]

-

[ls7plus]

While I'm skeptical also, I'd still like to compare the lithogrpahic dot pattern under my 16x loupe, or better yet, a microscope with the proper power, to a known genuine card, or series of such cards. Simply stated, that should tell if the card is counterfeit or not. If it is not counterfeit, but there remain significant differences with regard to other characteristics of the card, then the card is something other than a regular T206, and the question becomes what it is. The grading service which has in fact encasulated it has assigned it a category, which may or may not be correct. Barry is quite correct--we need to know how they arrived at that conclusion, assuming the card passed the former test. One thing does concern me, however.

I've taken hundreds of depostions in my career as a lawyer, many of them involving scammers of one kind or another, and these two are simply not behaving in a way that is consistent with the behavior these types of persons do exhibit. Perhaps if I saw the card in person and could examine it, I would have a somewhat different opinion, but the animosity towards these two seems to have grown out of hand.

Best regards, regardless of our different sentiments here,

Larry

[Ladder7]

Larry, it's been examined by an auction house owner, forensic expert and now a grading company (with a combined 39yrs experience) from a sophisticated province in Canada.

Theyve jumped through hoops to protect the prospective buyer. What more can we expect from these good fellows?

[benjulmag]

Larry,

I think you'd be wasting your time. And I do think the actions of these two guys are consistent with professional scammers. If they were really sincere, they would take a sample of the FRONT of the card and test the age. Its been said many times that EVEN IF the verso dates to 1909, that means NOTHING in this case given the documented discrepancies with the front. It would be easy for a professional conservator to put a reprint front on a slivered-off Piedmont back.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by Vintagedegu

On The Card and the race card front...

http://www.cantstopthebleeding.com/y...-honus-wagners

If you don't know your subject, you probably shouldn't be talking. Big problem with people these days.

Yeah, but he got to play the race card. fun, fun, fun.

[CW]

"It is what we call an unreleased version of the card," said ACA Grading owner Martin Brouillard. "It is a controversial card, and people are scared of it."

Yes, so scared, in fact, that ol' Honus is making the rounds this year at your local haunted house....

[glynparson]

but anyone that needs magnification to judge that cards legitimacy needs a new hobby.

[novakjr]

Gotta agree with Glyn. From the naked eye, the card not only appears fake, but is OBVIOUSLY fake. "Unreleased Version"? HA. I find it funny that the first of the "unreleased versions" to be discovered, just so happens to be Wagner. Even if it really is an "unreleased version"(cough), it's still worthless if they can't get anyone to believe them... This card is not and never will be an "unreleased version", a "t206 Wagner", or anything else that you can think of. Hell, it's not even a standard reprint, or just another scam(they've taken it way past that point).. It is "the Cobb/Edwards Wagner", and that's all this card will EVER be... And to top it off these two douchebags had the audacity to play the race card against the hobby, it's experts, and whoever else will listen in regards to this card. These two know it's fake(and probably have all along), and since they couldn't get anyone to side with them, they've been hoping to guilt someone into buying their BS. They can shove it up their @$$es...Which should be even more enjoyable now that it's been slabbed..

Sorry, if I come off a little angry, but I take this hobby seriously(well, about as seriously as it could be taken), and I've had about enough of hearing about these two clowns.

[barrysloate]

I suspect the next step is this card will be consigned to one of those marginal country auctions, one with a "no returns, all sales are final" policies. And you just know someone will buy it, figuring if it is real he will get it cheap and make a killing on it. And then you will never hear from these two guys again. That will be the end of their days in the public eye.

[benjulmag]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I suspect the next step is this card will be consigned to one of those marginal country auctions, one with a "no returns, all sales are final" policies. And you just know someone will buy it, figuring if it is real he will get it cheap and make a killing on it. And then you will never hear from these two guys again. That will be the end of their days in the public eye.

Sounds like the business model of Coaches Corner -- get a BS authentication and then sell the item for a small percentage of what it would be worth if it was authentic to an unsuspecting wet-behind-the-ears novice who thinks he made a killing.

[Leon]

A few pics sent by board member John D....the original fake?

[ullmandds]

They've created their own reality distortion field.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

They've created their own reality distortion field.

LMFAO Thanks....

Sincerely, Clayton

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

I'm sorry but anyone that needs magnification to judge that cards legitimacy needs a new hobby.

Right! That's why counterfeit Rose and Mattingly cards made such a splash in the hobby, as well as 1984 Fleer Update Goodens and Pucketts back in the day, and countless others. That's why certain dealers were able to make a killing selling vintage cards that appeared NMT-MT or better, but had actually been run through a paper mill, thereby enlarged, and subsequently trimmed back down to what was technically the correct size, before the advent of TPG. These cards sold and sold well, because they looked right to a large number of people that believed they knew what was legit and what was not. That is, they looked right unless you knew where to look under 16X power or so! As a matter of ACTUAL FACT, the more objective information one has, the better off one is. To think otherwise reflects only naivete, prejudice or arrogance. In three and a half decades of analyzing the facts in the course of litigation law practice, I've learned quite well the value of having all of the facts available that might even conceivabley affect the conclusions to be drawn. He who chooses to proceed without them is often setting himself up for quite a nasty fall!

I'm sorry to be blunt and not sugar-coat it, but sometimes it's necessary to tell it like it is.

Here's hoping we all prefer to keep our minds open and stay objective,

Larry

[z28jd]

Larry, did you happen to notice the scans Leon posted for me? That is the same reprint these two guys have, it was made back in the 70's supposedly, as I was told by the dealer who gave it to me. I've had mine since 1991 and it was old looking then. I have 656 real t206's and my Wagner, which looks exactly like their Wagner, does not look like any of those real t206's. There is no doubt it is a fake card, the back looks real but the front has so many problems it's literally unreal.

Trust me when I say this, I dont like work that much, if I had a real Wagner I wouldn't have it anymore and I certainly wouldn't have a job. Well, I would still be a writer but I wouldn't be working at a restaurant too. These guys do not have anything except the same reprint I've had for 20 years.

If someone now wants to believe because an unknown grading company gave their word it's real, let me know, I'll sell mine for one dollar less than whatever 6 figure price you'd pay for the other one. Reminded me just now that back in the day an unknown grading company graded a Mathewson reprint as real and then came on the board trying to defend their position...we never heard from them again. I suspect the same thing will happen with this company

edit: I have a good memory from 9 years ago, proof that I've been around here waaay too long http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...son+grade+tech

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by z28jd

...
edit: I have a good memory from 9 years ago, proof that I've been around here waaay too long http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...son+grade+tech

Thanks for dredging that one up! The entire gang's there - even Julie jumped in for a cameo at the end.

If I remember correctly, wasn't that what Dan Mathewson got all upset about and disappeared over?

[Fred]

Leon,

I have just one question. Why isn't ACA Grading one of the links available for grading companies in the Vintage Links section? You've got PSA listed Hey all you PSA lovers, take it easy....

Could you imagine if some numnut one actually bought this card at auction.